Fantasy politics?

[MahNose]

Anyone know any of them? More specifically, how to overthrow a kingdom?

War seems inevitable but are there alternative ways, and avoid politics?Because my brain might not process much and probably drag on the story.

Edit : Thank you everyone for responding, I will take your advice and research more related to this topic and I may use the references this thread has made.

 

[Deleted member 45782]

Does that also imply starting a new dynasty? I remember reading somewhere someone marry the only royal princess of that king. Then bc marriage and of course (gender stuff back then) claimed their right to throne and started a new dynasty.

 

[DubstheDuke]

I mean when I do fantasy politics, I always remember a few things.

1. Usually politics in fantasy don't involve "Political Parties" per say, but they do involve various families and factions. The royal family, noble families, various groups who hold political power through some sort of control they have such as military or guilds, etc. The royals almost always hold more power than anyone else, but this doesn't mean they're infalliable. They have to please both the public and the other factions else there is risk of being overthrown.

2. Individuals have certain statuses and positions, and these things are very important to define. Also, it is very important to make clear when someone is speaking beyond their power, or making statements which they don't have the influence to actually make. There is always an order to things, and breaking the order will make more enemies of others. Take Subaru from Re Zero for example, as he went and spoke out in the middle of that big meeting. Rather than the whole 'Oh because he's the protagonist he can do and say what he wants' he was instead met with harsh reality - that he can't just do whatever the hell he wants because there is an established order, and going against that order will hinder him and his faction.

3. As far as war is concerned, this is always a possibility. Diplomacy is important as well though. Negotiation is something that I've always found interesting to write, therefore it's something that should always be included in politics. After all, war in real life is usually only a last resort when all negotiations crumble.

 

[Lloyd]

Anyone know any of them? More specifically, how to overthrow a kingdom?

War seems inevitable but are there alternative ways, and avoid politics?Because my brain might not process much and probably drag on the story.

You could probably just manipulate a kingdom from the shadows with magic. Or go the more modern route and manipulate it with money. Often times manipulating a kingdom is much easier and better than overthrowing it.

 

[Herz]

Anyone know any of them? More specifically, how to overthrow a kingdom?

War seems inevitable but are there alternative ways, and avoid politics?Because my brain might not process much and probably drag on the story.

If your story is kingdom building, I doubt you can go around the political part. That's one of the reasons I didn't write such a story.
Overthrowing a kingdom should have mostly two ways:
1. Schemes and plotting. Finding allies from other countries and powerful individuals. Anyway, you go the political path, and you need to have good interpersonal communication skills too.
2. Raw force. This is obviously the non-plotted war where you just crush your opponents with raw force.

Honestly, the first way is more interesting, but it is way harder to write. The second one can be simple with just war, which is boring. Or you need to add schemes as well, which goes back to the first choise.

 

[MahNose]

Does that also imply starting a new dynasty? I remember reading somewhere someone marry the only royal princess of that king. Then bc marriage and of course (gender stuff back then) claimed their right to throne and started a new dynasty.

Quite actually, but the other party is another kingdom, their prioritized goal is to claim more territory rather than raising a new heir by forced marriage.

But how would the nobles and higher ups be shown in an overthrown situation?

If your story is kingdom building, I doubt you can go around the political part. That's one of the reasons I didn't write such a story.
Overthrowing a kingdom should have mostly two ways:
1. Schemes and plotting. Finding allies from other countries and powerful individuals. Anyway, you go the political path, and you need to have good interpersonal communication skills too.
2. Raw force. This is obviously the non-plotted war where you just crush your opponents with raw force.

Honestly, the first way is more interesting, but it is way harder to write. The second one can be simple with just war, which is boring. Or you need to add schemes as well, which goes back to the first choise.

The main story isn't kingdom building since it will only appear in the beginning and at the last arc. This will only be the part where the goal has originated.

No.1 is the one I'm trying to aim, because the protag is rather an influential figure. I tried to go with the brute force route but that will be uninteresting and will likely drag the story.

 

[SerikoLee]

Here is a novel , i worked on but it won't fit people with a lot of expectations.

The Time I Got Reincarnated As A Seraph

A man dying due to a random attacker ascends to heaven and god reincarnates him as a female angel , since he plays games often and watches overlord. The mc sents off to make allies and go into conquest after making enough allies. Discord Server: https://discord.gg/jckYJDDHCg Family-friendly...

www.scribblehub.com

 

[Snusmumriken]

No.1 is the one I'm trying to aim, because the protag is rather an influential figure. I tried to go with the brute force route but that will be uninteresting and will likely drag the story.

The issue is to hold and control the fantasy land you need to have force. One way or another.

If you want to concentrate on the intrigue and politics part of that - go for force acquisition. you can have intrigue while making influential families subvert under your banner or simply not rallying onde the liege's when battles start. you can plan some backstabbing to rouse some old rivalries within the ranks of the enemy, or accidentally disappear a genius general.

 

[lnv]

Anyone know any of them? More specifically, how to overthrow a kingdom?

War seems inevitable but are there alternative ways, and avoid politics?Because my brain might not process much and probably drag on the story.

You are looking for a method to overthrow a kingdom without politics or war?

Some methods are:

1) Kingdom was about to collapse, all the nobles tried to escape but died

2) Being a hero, then king dies with only a baby as the heir. Then the hero "temporary takes over" and the baby pretty much remains a figurehead or eventually forgotten about. (This is a bit of politics but doesn't need to get too deep)

 

[Jemini]

You are looking for a method to overthrow a kingdom without politics or war?

Some methods are:

1) Kingdom was about to collapse, all the nobles tried to escape but died

2) Being a hero, then king dies with only a baby as the heir. Then the hero "temporary takes over" and the baby pretty much remains a figurehead or eventually forgotten about. (This is a bit of politics but doesn't need to get too deep)

I think both of those still involve politics.

I believe the OP was very poorly phrased due to a lack of understanding about what politics is.

Politics refers to anything having to do with the leadership of a nation. Therefore, the mere act of taking over a nation is politics in and of itself. In other words, the question in the OP can be accurately re-phrased as "How can I get involved in politics without getting involved in politics?" Unless you want to chase yourself in philosophical loops for egg-heads, the question is self-defeating on it's face.

My recommendation to the OP would be that it would probably be a good idea for them to avoid anything politics related in their writing, at least until they learn more. It's going to go badly if you are the sort that would think of asking a question like this.

 

[Cipiteca396]

You are looking for a method to overthrow a kingdom without politics or war?

Oh wow, you're still alive. Your book gave me depression like 2 years ago.

Anyone know any of them? More specifically, how to overthrow a kingdom?

War seems inevitable but are there alternative ways, and avoid politics? Because my brain might not process much and probably drag on the story.

You might have better luck asking about medieval politics, or just politics in general.

There's too many things to consider to get a good response without offering more details. Are you actually talking about a kingdom, or did you just use that word because all the stories you read do.

Quite actually, but the other party is another kingdom, their prioritized goal is to claim more territory rather than raising a new heir by forced marriage.

But how would the nobles and higher ups be shown in an overthrown situation?

The main story isn't kingdom building since it will only appear in the beginning and at the last arc. This will only be the part where the goal has originated.

No.1 is the one I'm trying to aim, because the protag is rather an influential figure. I tried to go with the brute force route but that will be uninteresting and will likely drag the story.

If the other kingdom just wants more territory, they may be satisfied just taking that territory and leaving the rest of the kingdom alone. Borders change all the time.

Nobles are either opportunists or loyalists. Either they'll try to demonstrate their usefulness to the new boss, or they'll do that and try to screw the new boss over at the same time. Or they'll flee or openly fight and get killed.

If it doesn't matter then you can just have a vague "Oh, I got put on the throne, but I'm not actually gonna do something complicated like rule. That's what all those power hungry nobles are for."

If you're aiming for a highly political protagonist, then you'll just need to do a hell of a lot of research into it. And then it won't mean anything if it's not the goal of the story. Perhaps you should consider not overthrowing the kingdom?

 

[RepresentingCaution]

Study history.

 

[Ai-chan]

Anyone know any of them? More specifically, how to overthrow a kingdom?

War seems inevitable but are there alternative ways, and avoid politics?Because my brain might not process much and probably drag on the story.

To overthrow a kingdom, you need the following:

1. A just cause
It can be anything, such as high taxation, unfair or bad laws, or discrimination. In a functioning society, people would be able to voice out their disagreements and be heard, but when they can't, they find other ways.

2. Negative public sentiments
It can be disagreement with how the kingdom uses public funds, the wars the kingdom are in, the treatment of the common people or maybe the people are just plain unhappy with the kingdom.

3. Powerful support
It doesn't mean you need the support of dukes or the military. The Chinese dynasties have mostly started to fall when the people stopped supporting them, some outright rebelling against them. You can argue that the military is well armed, but outnumbered 100 to 1, there's not much they can do, even if the people is only armed with farming implements. This is especially true in a medieval setting, as the difference between a shovel and a spear is not that far.

4. An impetus
Just because the people are disagreeable with the kingdom, doesn't mean they will rebel right away. In most cases, no matter how bad the situation is, most people would keep their heads low and obey the status quo. After all, if they rebel, things might become even worse. For these people to rebel, they need a massive shock in their lives. Such as maybe the execution of their benevolent mayor's family.

5. Force of arms
While even the army won't be able to do anything if peasants outnumber them 100 to 1, that is rarely to happen unless the situation has gotten too bad. After all, people are not chess pieces. People don't want to die. Going against the kingdom will mean many of them will die. If you want them to rebel, you have to give them a motivation, such as "They're going to kill you anyway, might as well kill them first so that they won't be able to harm your family." You can also give them the illusion that they might survive by giving them weapons, a weapon being anything from magic, cannons, guns, monsters or whatever else that makes them think, "With this, I might survive if the army gets involved."

6. A figurehead
A rebellion will not form without a figurehead. Even if a rebellion is to occur without an existing figurehead, or if the figurehead is executed, there will always be someone calling the shots or rising up to the challenge to give the movement a direction. A rebellion is not just a bunch of people burning stuff around. A rebellion is itself an organic organization, and while it may be an anarchic organization, even anarchy requires a direction or motivation. Who would produce goods? Who would supply food to the rebellion? Sooner or later, these issues will become a problem and someone will be put in charge of those, and when someone gains any amount of power or influence in an anarchy, there will be someone calling the shots or the rebellion will eventually settle down and disappear.

 

[lnv]

I think both of those still involve politics.

I believe the OP was very poorly phrased due to a lack of understanding about what politics is.

Maybe, but the request was how to take over a kingdom without politics, not what happens after. So I figure the request is simply they didn't want to get too political and just wanted it as a backstory. For all we know, after taking over the kingdom, the actual story has little to do with actually managing said kingdom. Like after taking over, it fast forwards a few decades when they die, and then reincarnate centuries later. (seen it done before). Or MC being a figurehead, and all the politics happens off screen.

So end of the day, what is most important is the intention of the author and the direction they wish to take their story into.

Oh wow, you're still alive. Your book gave me depression like 2 years ago.

Yeah, I am alive >.>, been having health issues and lots of work :(, but I am still writing little by little so more depression to come.

 

[Jemini]

Maybe, but the request was how to take over a kingdom without politics, not what happens after. So I figure the request is simply they didn't want to get too political and just wanted it as a backstory. For all we know, after taking over the kingdom, the actual story has little to do with actually managing said kingdom. Like after taking over, it fast forwards a few decades when they die, and then reincarnate centuries later. (seen it done before). Or MC being a figurehead, and all the politics happens off screen.

So end of the day, what is most important is the intention of the author and the direction they wish to take their story into.

What I'm saying is that the mere act of taking over a kingdom IS politics, regardless of how it's done. Politics is not all the back-room deals and stuff like that. That stuff is part of politics, but it is not required. Politics is anything and EVERYTHING related to the governing of a country. Just being in charge is an act of politics. Replacing the leader is an act of politics. Decapitating the king is an act of politics. Putting the crown on your own head is an act of politics. Being named the ruler, for any reason what so ever, even if you did nothing to get yourself to that position and it was suddenly just sprung on you out of nowhere, is an act of politics.

Politics is both more simple and also more complex than most people give it credit for. This is why I said the OP's question was a statement of ignorance.

We can suppose he/she meant that it doesn't involve too much in terms of the more complex aspects of politics, but that just means the politics involved are more simple. It's impossible to become the ruler of a country with zero politics because the mere act of becoming the ruler is an act of politics.

Anyway, if we suppose it is some form of monarchy, it is actually fairly easy to become the ruler without much political complexity. That's one of the things that's nice about the fantasy genre, the setting can be that of a monarchy which has far simpler politics than a democratic state run by a councelate of some kind.

 

[BenJepheneT]

What I'm saying is that the mere act of taking over a kingdom IS politics, regardless of how it's done. Politics is not all the back-room deals and stuff like that. That stuff is part of politics, but it is not required. Politics is anything and EVERYTHING related to the governing of a country. Just being in charge is an act of politics. Replacing the leader is an act of politics. Decapitating the king is an act of politics. Putting the crown on your own head is an act of politics. Being named the ruler, for any reason what so ever, even if you did nothing to get yourself to that position and it was suddenly just sprung on you out of nowhere, is an act of politics.

Politics is both more simple and also more complex than most people give it credit for. This is why I said the OP's question was a statement of ignorance.

We can suppose he/she meant that it doesn't involve too much in terms of the more complex aspects of politics, but that just means the politics involved are more simple. It's impossible to become the ruler of a country with zero politics because the mere act of becoming the ruler is an act of politics.

Anyway, if we suppose it is some form of monarchy, it is actually fairly easy to become the ruler without much political complexity. That's one of the things that's nice about the fantasy genre, the setting can be that of a monarchy which has far simpler politics than a democratic state run by a councelate of some kind.

im going to bait Kingdom Building readers by filling my novel with political tags and when they come it's just a caveman beating tribe leader Grug over the head with a rock and taking his place