Sell/Unsell me on Genderbender Stories

[Localforeigner]

So this is a genre I just don't get. Like what is the point? What is the benefit to the writer? What is it about them that appeals?

 

[Moonpearl]

If it's done correctly, gender bender is a genre that keeps giving. Lighter levels of GB (like playing VR as another gender) can be used for comedic misunderstandings or more believable double identities, and transformation can be used to explore gender as a theme and/or set up some (tasteful) humour about gender roles.
And all that is only scratching the surface.

In transgender fiction, it typically acts as wish fulfillment and/or as a means for a character to realise they're trans.

However, if used too lazily or without attention to detail, it's easy to make your GB elements pointless or even downright offensive. It goes south pretty quickly if you reinforce/uphold gender stereotypes instead of properly highlighting them, too.

 

[Jamminrabbit]

If i got turned into a girl, the first thing i'd go do is

Spoiler

get DICKED by an Astolfo-sized donger

 

[hauntedwritings]

Overall, I think GB stories fall into one out of two categories. @Moonpearl more or less said it.
1. Comedic stress release.
2. Identity crisis plot, where MC has to deal with change of gender.
This then branches off into one out of two optional romantic subplots. Where the romantic partner is either same/opposite of MC's new gender.
And the way I see it, GB stories are then just combinations of whether they have the sexual orientation or not for the surfacing romantic feelings (if any, many are...lacking imo).
The different combinations then decides how far out the story lies inbetween comedy and identity crisis.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

I say it's a good way for the reader to explore their feelings about their own gender as well as other genders.

 

[Nneeil]

If i got turned into a girl, the first thing i'd go do is

Spoiler

get DICKED by an Astolfo-sized donger

You don't need to be a girl for that homie

 

[DarkGodEM]

So this is a genre I just don't get. Like what is the point? What is the benefit to the writer? What is it about them that appeals?

It's nice to have characters portray the doubts you have. As a GB writer I just like writing it since it gives me a lot more freedom

 

[CrusadeAgainstFurries]

So this is a genre I just don't get. Like what is the point? What is the benefit to the writer? What is it about them that appeals?

I don't read them, but my guess is it's about uncovering the mysteries of higher dimensions or something.

 

[Malonymous]

Have you ever wanted to be someone else? Have you ever wondered what life would be like from their perspective, in a body different from your own? Or maybe there were times when you wished you could physically change something about yourself, like being taller or shorter?

At least in terms of wish fulfillment, Gender Bender is often about exploring those kinds of ideas, usually through the eyes of a character who ends up in an... unfamiliar body one way or another. Of course, the spotlight tends to shine on primary and secondary sex characteristics and their unmistakable differences, but there is far more to living life as the opposite sex than just what's between the legs (i.e. How would other people in society act around you?). As an observer, you can vicariously experience life "on the other side" for comedy, eroticism, or maybe even something on a deeper psychological level.

Also, I'll just leave this here...

Types and Styles of Gender Bender

For purely research purposes of course, I have analyzed Gender Bender stories across various media and attempted to categorize different types of Gender Bender for fellow 'scholars' out there. :blob_wink: I've had this idea for a while, and now with some inspiration from LotsChrono and his...

forum.scribblehub.com

 

[DarkGodEM]

Have you ever wanted to be someone else? Have you ever wondered what life would be like from their perspective, in a body different from your own? Or maybe there were times when you wished you could physically change something about yourself, like being taller or shorter?

At least in terms of wish fulfillment, Gender Bender is often about exploring those kinds of ideas, usually through the eyes of a character who ends up in an... unfamiliar body one way or another. Of course, the spotlight tends to shine on primary and secondary sex characteristics and their unmistakable differences, but there is far more to living life as the opposite sex than just what's between the legs (i.e. How would other people in society act around you?). As an observer, you can vicariously experience life "on the other side" for comedy, eroticism, or maybe even something on a deeper psychological level.

Also, I'll just leave this here...

Types and Styles of Gender Bender

For purely research purposes of course, I have analyzed Gender Bender stories across various media and attempted to categorize different types of Gender Bender for fellow 'scholars' out there. :blob_wink: I've had this idea for a while, and now with some inspiration from LotsChrono and his...

forum.scribblehub.com

that or the writer just has gender dysphoria and wants to escape reality....................................

Oh shit.

 

[Jemini]

I have gender bender in one of my stories. The objective in mine is that I didn't like the concept of always being reincarnated as your own gender. I mean, there ought to be a 50% chance of being either gender, right?

So, I made a cast of 4 characters who are all reincarnated with their memories. 2 male and 2 female. Thing is, 1 male and 1 female member of the group were both the opposite genders in their previous lives. So, that's all 4 possible combinations you can have. (male to male, female to female, male to female, and female to male.)

That was my premise anyway.

For a more serious explanation as to the origin of the popularity behind gender-benders, it is due to a phenomenon within the male sexuality that ancient Greeks were very well aware of. I forget the term that they gave it, but the term roughly translates to "love of oneself as a woman." In other words, it's some kind of strange fetish for men where they actually get turned on from imagining themselves as a woman.

This is a concept that has largely resurfaced today amid the transgender debate, because this is a very real phenomenon within cysgender men. However, if the awareness of this phenomenon is not well known, then it's possible that these men could be convinced they are actually transgender women. Cases like these make up a lot of the instances among those who transition to female and then transition back to male when they realize they were not really transgender. And, there's a lot of regret attached of course due to the destruction of their sexual functions. Admittedly, most with this fetish are able to realize well before attempting a transition that they aren't really trans women, so it never goes that far, but there are a few (usually among those who are ludicrously wealthy enough to not be forced to slow down and think about it due to the monetary constraints.)

Anyway, the popularity of the gender bender genre which is primarily dominated with male-to-female gender bending seems to indicate that this phenomenon is a lot more prevalent than most people would care to admit. I think the most likely scenario is that it is latent in most cases, but the increasing prevalence of the gender bender genre since Ranma 1/2 introduced the concept has likely awoken those who were already of a disposition to turn that way. And so, it kinda perpetuates itself.

 

[Localforeigner]

If it's done correctly, gender bender is a genre that keeps giving. Lighter levels of GB (like playing VR as another gender) can be used for comedic misunderstandings or more believable double identities, and transformation can be used to explore gender as a theme and/or set up some (tasteful) humour about gender roles.
And all that is only scratching the surface.

In transgender fiction, it typically acts as wish fulfillment and/or as a means for a character to realise they're trans.

However, if used too lazily or without attention to detail, it's easy to make your GB elements pointless or even downright offensive. It goes south pretty quickly if you reinforce/uphold gender stereotypes instead of properly highlighting them, too.

Thanks for the insightful breakdown. I guess the few GB I have encountered primarily focused on the 'comedy' and were really just based on sexist and offensive stereotypes.

 

[Localforeigner]

I have gender bender in one of my stories. The objective in mine is that I didn't like the concept of always being reincarnated as your own gender. I mean, there ought to be a 50% chance of being either gender, right?

So, I made a cast of 4 characters who are all reincarnated with their memories. 2 male and 2 female. Thing is, 1 male and 1 female member of the group were both the opposite genders in their previous lives. So, that's all 4 possible combinations you can have. (male to male, female to female, male to female, and female to male.)

That was my premise anyway.

For a more serious explanation as to the origin of the popularity behind gender-benders, it is due to a phenomenon within the male sexuality that ancient Greeks were very well aware of. I forget the term that they gave it, but the term roughly translates to "love of oneself as a woman." In other words, it's some kind of strange fetish for men where they actually get turned on from imagining themselves as a woman.

This is a concept that has largely resurfaced today amid the transgender debate, because this is a very real phenomenon within cysgender men. However, if the awareness of this phenomenon is not well known, then it's possible that these men could be convinced they are actually transgender women. Cases like these make up a lot of the instances among those who transition to female and then transition back to male when they realize they were not really transgender. And, there's a lot of regret attached of course due to the destruction of their sexual functions. Admittedly, most with this fetish are able to realize well before attempting a transition that they aren't really trans women, so it never goes that far, but there are a few (usually among those who are ludicrously wealthy enough to not be forced to slow down and think about it due to the monetary constraints.)

Anyway, the popularity of the gender bender genre which is primarily dominated with male-to-female gender bending seems to indicate that this phenomenon is a lot more prevalent than most people would care to admit. I think the most likely scenario is that it is latent in most cases, but the increasing prevalence of the gender bender genre since Ranma 1/2 introduced the concept has likely awoken those who were already of a disposition to turn that way. And so, it kinda perpetuates itself.

Very interesting. I'd never heard of that. Thank you!

 

[sereminar]

But yeah I mostly just really like trans narratives because I'm trans lol. And it's nice to read about other people exploring their gender because it's pretty complicated. Like there's a reason why people spend so much time questioning different aspects of their identity. We are ever changing beings in a constant state of transience and growth, there is no permanent state of self.

And reading/watching characters grow and discover different aspects of who they are as a central part of the narrative is pretty powerful. Especially when it's something as easily taken for granted as gender (and gender expression). Which makes for a solid premise in character driven stories, who doesn't like a little character growth and healing.

 

[Jemini]

Thank you so much. Like legitimately, it infuriates me when someone reincarnated like a dozen times but always as the same sex. Such b.s. Or like they reincarnate as current animals/species altogether but they are only ever male/female

But yeah I mostly just really like trans narratives because I'm trans lol. And it's nice to read about other people exploring their gender because it's pretty complicated. Like there's a reason why people spend so much time questioning different aspects of their identity. We are ever changing beings in a constant state of transience and growth, there is no permanent state of self.

And reading/watching characters grow and discover different aspects of who they are as a central part of the narrative is pretty powerful. Especially when it's something as easily taken for granted as gender (and gender expression). Which makes for a solid premise in character driven stories, who doesn't like a little character growth and healing.

Yeah, the tough thing has been trying to handle the way the MC (who is the male to female) handles the transformation. This is my second attempt with this, and this time just like the last time my aim was to do the opposite of what most male to female genderbenders do. Most of them have the MC make a SUPER big deal about realizing they are female right when they find out, but then they accept it all too quickly and never make a stink about it again. I hate that.

My aim is to have the MC tell herself she has accepted being a female right from the start because "hey, can't do anything about it, right?" (especially in a medieval setting.) And then, gradually discover it really is not so simple to just deny how that sort of thing is affecting him/her. Thing is, when I came out blatantly and said "guess I'll just accept it" the first time around, a bunch of people got mad at me for it before I could play out the gradual realization and struggles part. This time, I've decided to just stay silent about it and not overtly say anything, while referring to herself in female pronouns. Hopefully that way nobody will have a specific line to trigger off of and I can work my way to the pay-off before anyone can start taking issue with how it (intentionally falsely) looks like it's being handled early on.

(I'm trying to establish the MC's character as being self-destructively utilitarian for the sake of getting the need-to-do things done. In her previous life as a male, he was a male nurse. That's a job where you deal with stress for the sake of others, so it is something that is very naturally in the character of people who are in that line of work to be self-sacrificing and not realize just how much the stress is piling up on them.)

EDIT: FYI, the story I'm talking about is "Key to the Void" where I'm doing all this gender exploration stuff. "A New Hero God" is one that explores the political side of discrimination. Discrimination is also a prominent theme in "Key to the Void," but "A New Hero God" relates it a lot more to the real modern day stuff due to the fact that it wraps the disgusting interplay between politics and racism into it's theme where "Key to the Void" has more of the fact that it just acknowledges that's a part of how people are and is more on the social level of it.

 

[Ai-chan]

So this is a genre I just don't get. Like what is the point? What is the benefit to the writer? What is it about them that appeals?

Not trying to sell you any dick.

But do you know what's better than a man? 2 men.

You know what's better than a woman? 2 women.

What is better than a man or a woman? Both at the same time.

So now not only you can have a man, you can have a man who's also a woman. Or you can have a woman with a dick. What more would you want?

 

[IWannaBeAMergirl]

So this is a genre I just don't get. Like what is the point? What is the benefit to the writer? What is it about them that appeals?

Well, I personally don't like some of the more repetitive takes on the genre. In my own writing, I usually focus on it not being a fetish story, as it usually is, but a story about self discovery, on the individual's reaction to becoming the opposite gender.

But I'm also odd in that I prefer slightly more realistic takes on the genre. My work really veers more into transgender fiction than it does into traditional tg.

I'm rambling, I can't really say what draws people to typical tg, anymore than I can say what draws people to typical romance.

 

[IWannaBeAMergirl]

I have gender bender in one of my stories. The objective in mine is that I didn't like the concept of always being reincarnated as your own gender. I mean, there ought to be a 50% chance of being either gender, right?

So, I made a cast of 4 characters who are all reincarnated with their memories. 2 male and 2 female. Thing is, 1 male and 1 female member of the group were both the opposite genders in their previous lives. So, that's all 4 possible combinations you can have. (male to male, female to female, male to female, and female to male.)

That was my premise anyway.

For a more serious explanation as to the origin of the popularity behind gender-benders, it is due to a phenomenon within the male sexuality that ancient Greeks were very well aware of. I forget the term that they gave it, but the term roughly translates to "love of oneself as a woman." In other words, it's some kind of strange fetish for men where they actually get turned on from imagining themselves as a woman.

This is a concept that has largely resurfaced today amid the transgender debate, because this is a very real phenomenon within cysgender men. However, if the awareness of this phenomenon is not well known, then it's possible that these men could be convinced they are actually transgender women. Cases like these make up a lot of the instances among those who transition to female and then transition back to male when they realize they were not really transgender. And, there's a lot of regret attached of course due to the destruction of their sexual functions. Admittedly, most with this fetish are able to realize well before attempting a transition that they aren't really trans women, so it never goes that far, but there are a few (usually among those who are ludicrously wealthy enough to not be forced to slow down and think about it due to the monetary constraints.)

Anyway, the popularity of the gender bender genre which is primarily dominated with male-to-female gender bending seems to indicate that this phenomenon is a lot more prevalent than most people would care to admit. I think the most likely scenario is that it is latent in most cases, but the increasing prevalence of the gender bender genre since Ranma 1/2 introduced the concept has likely awoken those who were already of a disposition to turn that way. And so, it kinda perpetuates itself.

So hopefully I don't sound weird bringing this up, but I am one of these people. I don't know how prevalent the kink/fetish is, but it doesn't seem terribly uncommon. I try to show restraint with it.

 

[CookieCrumble]

So this is a genre I just don't get. Like what is the point? What is the benefit to the writer? What is it about them that appeals?

The most thing I want to see from gender-bender story is how it suppose to HIT you on the face. A few years back, I played MMORPG with a female character. In my country, there is a pervasive culture that the young male is supposed to be brash and outgoing. Even for the introvert (since the screen supposedly shields them from social anxiety). When they play, they would splutter these god-awful slangs which I could only translate as bro and dude.

Now the female gamer which consists of 10-20% of the population has this subtle shift in what I would call minority-modified-behavior. Basically, people would behave differently if their particular demographic is a minority in a given setting. I see it's played with my fellow men in my faculty (mine is a female majority), with how my cousin behave in a family meeting, and now I see it in the game I played

In that game. Female players tend to be reserved. Abstaining from male-based slang (like bro, dudes, etc) and even shift how they laugh (like for example if guys laugh by using ROFL most girls will do haha or LOL). This subtle context makes identifying the likelihood of someone being female gamer playing female character is quite doable. Particularly if the guy behind it (male gamer playing female character), only done so for dress-up and waifu-claiming instead of catfishing.

My personality is a bit reserved. And in my youth, I hold undeserved contempt for slang. This was carried over to the game and I spoke in normal, measured tones. So, when I start using a female character. A cute one if I might add. Guy left and right begins hitting me.

Several were direct (read: horny bastard) and PM'ing me with stuff like 'Hey Cutie, what is your Friendster/Facebook page' (this is the 2000s). Others were subtle, trying to get to know me when we're having post-hunting/farming talks. I of course, never bother correcting them. Since they're the ones who assume my gender. But from those years I finally understand what it means to be sexually harassed, why women keep pushing the pendulum of gender affirmative action so hard. Because it's uncomfortable! A freaking stranger came at you and act like they had power over you! Like somehow a dangling piece of genital entitles you privilege over the other. And even though you're only speaking politely with occasional haha because what your conversation partner is actually funny, it was interpreted as FLIRTING!

This. This is what I want to be explored in gender-bender. How the drunken patron at adventurer guild leers at you. How suddenly people disregard your opinion. How were you offered no sympathy for trouble befell you. How you are told to man up, even though you considered to walk to that seaside cliff and just jump. How your tears portrayed as weakness. How you're expected to cook for everyone.

All of this matters and not just how painful the menses are. Or I don't know, stupid things like sudden erection or panic at morning wood. And when that blurb was over, after the laugh recede. Everyone (excluding your party mate who knows you better) just treats you like the other gal/guy on which your soul based on. Like the gender-bender tag doesn't even matter!

/rant

That's my take I think.

 

[Localforeigner]

The most thing I want to see from gender-bender story is how it suppose to HIT you on the face. A few years back, I played MMORPG with a female character. In my country, there is a pervasive culture that the young male is supposed to be brash and outgoing. Even for the introvert (since the screen supposedly shields them from social anxiety). When they play, they would splutter these god-awful slangs which I could only translate as bro and dude.

Now the female gamer which consists of 10-20% of the population has this subtle shift in what I would call minority-modified-behavior. Basically, people would behave differently if their particular demography is a minority in a given setting. I see it's played with my fellow men in my faculty (mine is a female majority), with how my cousin behave in a family meeting, and now I see it in the game I played

In that game. Female players tend to be reserved. Abstaining from male-based slang (like bro, dudes, etc) and even shift how they laugh (like for example if guys laugh by using ROFL most girls will do haha or LOL). This subtle context makes identifying the likelihood of someone being female gamer playing female character is quite doable. Particularly if the guy behind it (male gamer playing female character), only done so for dress-up and waifu-claiming instead of catfishing.

My personality is a bit reserved. And in my youth, I hold undeserved contempt for slang. This was carried over to the game and spoke in normal, measured tones. So, when I start using a female character. A cute one if I might add. Guy left and right begins hitting me.

Several were direct (read: horny bastard) that ask my Friendster/Facebook page (this is the 2000s). Others were subtle, trying to get to know me when we're having post-hunting/farming talks. I of course, never bother correcting them. Since they're the ones who assume my gender (lol). But from those years I finally understand what it means to be sexually harassed (virtually of course), why women keep pushing the pendulum of gender affirmative action so hard. Because it's uncomfortable! A freaking stranger came at you and act like they had power over you! Like somehow a dangling piece of genital entitles you privilege over the other. And even though you're only speaking politely with occasional haha because what your conversation partner is actually funny, it was interpreted as FLIRTING!

This. This is what I want to be explored in gender-bender. How the drunken patron at adventurer guild leers at you. How suddenly people disregard your opinion. How were you offered no sympathy for trouble befell you. How you are told to man up, even though you considered to walk to that seaside cliff and just jump. How your tears portrayed as weakness. How you're expected to cook for everyone.

All of this matters and not just how painful the menses are. Or I don't know, stupid things like sudden erection or panic at morning wood. And when that blurb was over, after the laugh recede. Everyone (excluding your party mate who knows you better) just treats you like the other gal/guy on which your soul based on. Like the gender-bender tag doesn't even matter!

/rant

That's my take I think.

This is really interesting. I've certainly heard of the phenomenon you describe, of male players in MMO's hitting on female avatars regardless of the actual player's gender (or caring to learn it, just assuming).

But why not just write a female character who has to deal with those issues? That's the part I don't get. Unless it is some sort of 'life-lesson' for a horn-dog to gain empathy over how he's always treated women badly, I don't see how making the 'real' person be a man makes telling the stories of sexism any better? Like, it seems with your experience and empathy you could write a really telling story of the kind of crap that women have to go through daily. Is it that there is a concern that a male reader might avoid a story with a female MC?