Required minimum ratings.

[L0pez]

I just wanted to suggest that before 'ratings' appear, there should be minimal amounts of 'ratings'. I wouldn't want for some novel to be overlooked because first(and possibly only) 'rating' placed it forever in 3's, and with less popular genres that can be a case.

Maybe "ratings" should appear only after 10-100 people rated novel, and until then they should be treated as unrated ones?

@Edit I wasn't really commited to "10-100 people", for starters, 3 people seem reasonable given amount of users, it can be increased in the future.

 

[Lukha]

Hmm, this is definitely an interesting idea. I can see how it can be detrimental for first impressions of novels before they even have been read. Although I like to respect a reader's opinion, I know they can be really harsh and it's not fair to a writer.

I think that could be a good idea, but it could become problematic if readers want to express their opinion and feel like they are being silenced if the rating doesn't even show.

I was also thinking maybe instead of having the numeric rating next to the stars, it would be good to see how many people rated it; basically like how the rating is shown when you click on a novel and see the stars and quantity of ratings.

Or also, I was thinking maybe it would be cool if a novel could only be rated after the reader has read a certain number of chapters. I know that's extremely tricky, and even I wouldn't know how to implement a system like that, but I agree with L0pez's opinion in that it could be unfair for a novel to be overlooked based on their ratings, especially if someone is abusing the rating system by downrating other novels other than theirs.

 

[ars]

This is an interesting suggestion! Rather than setting a minimum number of ratings before display, though, I would prefer there to be an option to hide ratings on your story.

The number of readers who leave ratings isn't that high; most stories, especially shorter ones, may never reach 10 ratings. So, good or decent stories that haven't been rated enough times will also have their high ratings hidden. That'll make it harder for promising stories to stand out.

 

[Ddraig]

I would prefer there to be an option to hide ratings on your story

Would not only those who got lower ratings hide their ratings then? Which would make them stand out as others wont hide their ratings as they are good. Basically then readers would start equating hidden rating == bad story

 

[ars]

Would not only those who got lower ratings hide their ratings then? Which would make them stand out as others wont hide their ratings as they are good. Basically then readers would start equating hidden rating == bad story

Ah! That's very true!
I'm not smart enough to think of better solutions though...

 

[ChronicleCrawler]

Would not only those who got lower ratings hide their ratings then? Which would make them stand out as others wont hide their ratings as they are good. Basically then readers would start equating hidden rating == bad story

There's a sense in that especially in relation to some readers who are quick to judge. No rating, bad story =no read:0_0:. How about encouraging the community (forums)to look out for new uploaded series and continuing series for rerating & reviews. Let's make something like peer review panel.

 

[lnv]

I just wanted to suggest that before 'ratings' appear, there should be minimal amounts of 'ratings'. I wouldn't want for some novel to be overlooked because first(and possibly only) 'rating' placed it forever in 3's, and with less popular genres that can be a case.

Maybe "ratings" should appear only after 10-100 people rated novel, and until then they should be treated as unrated ones?

I personally think it is fine. This isn't translation, this is writing, and hopefully it encourages authors to not release until they have multiple chapters pre-written. If anything, I'd require that stories only show up on the site after 10 chapters.(unless it is a short story).

That said, I do wish there was something like vote weights. Where it keeps track of what tags some people constantly down vote (or up vote) and lowers the weight of the vote. I always face slap myself when people complain about a novel having something despite it being pretty clear it has it in the tags.

 

[yansusustories]

I think having the number of ratings displayed would be great. As for a minimal number of ratings I'm a little torn. I'd say 100 is definitely too high. 10 is better but could still be difficult to achieve, especially for authors who start out and don't have a following from other stories already.
Just looking at the 4 stories I have up, only 1 would have a rating displayed if a 10 rating limit was implemented. Another one has only received 9 ratings despite having more than 100 chapters and being updated daily. So it's not like we as the authors can do much to receive more ratings. It depends on the readers.
On that note, encouraging rating stories here on the forum might be a good idea. I also think that the older the site gets, the more the ratings will average out.

 

[NiQuinn]

I personally think it is fine. This isn't translation, this is writing, and hopefully it encourages authors to not release until they have multiple chapters pre-written. If anything, I'd require that stories only show up on the site after 10 chapters.(unless it is a short story).

I think this is actually a good idea. Sort of like how Volare would mass release new works as an introduction to the story. Then, afterward, you can do your scheduled releases. I still hope there would be a fairer way for ratings to come about. Also, it would be great for readers to leave comments as it encourages the authors. Then again, that's really up to the reader(s).

 

[Ultrabenosaurus]

RESURRECTING OLD THREAD

I think @L0pez is onto something, this thread is definitely on the right track. Though I'd like to add two things:

1. I don't think authors should be allowed to rate their own works, because obviously they're only going to give 5 stars and - especially while the story is still new - that'll skew the figures. I'm not an author though so it might not even be possible to rate your own work anyway.

2. Somehow the site should block ratings / reviews completely for new stories for a short while, not just prevent them from being visible. I have seen on RoyalRoad some sites that Andur's certain authors' stories have a fanatical dedicated group of supporters who instantly rate and review at 5 stars as soon as the first chapter is released, often admitting openly that they haven't read it yet and are just voting because Andur's the author's work can't possibly be bad. Even though it definitely can be quite bad. I think fewer zealous puppets people would leave such ratings after a few days, once the novelty* and kneejerk emotional rush of a new story has calmed down.

*pun intended

 

[ars]

Mmm. I'm not sure that changing the rating system is the solution to the actual problem (which is new/unpopular stories being passed over because of ratings).

A lot of these suggestions are about hiding or preventing ratings for new stories.

Many of the new writers who post stories are looking for immediate feedback. They want to know what people think about their story, and they want to know if their idea is interesting enough to keep writing. The easiest ways for them to get feedback are star ratings and chapter favorites. Comments and reviews are unfortunately sparse.

-Requiring a minimum number of ratings before the total rating displays means that some stories which aren't read enough to hit that minimum will never have their rating displayed.

-Setting a chapter minimum before ratings show hurts new writers who are seeking feedback on their first chapters. Most hobbyist writers, especially new ones, aren't going to pre-write 10 chapters before posting. One of the comparisons made to this situation was how volare releases batch translations for their new stories - but volare is a powerhouse translator group with tons of experienced members. Even in the translation world, most translators work on their own and can only release one chapter at a time. At most, a solo translator might do a batch release of a couple of chapters for their first release. Similarly, most new writers will make 1~3 chapters before they bring their story to the world, hoping to see if anyone is interested in reading.

-Blocking, as in preventing anyone from rating at all when a story is posted, just discourages early feedback. If someone reads a story that a new author just posted, thinks, 'Oh, kay, this was a pretty fun read' and goes to rate it only to find that they can't, they're just going to exit out and move to the next thing. They're not going to remember to come back to rate it after X amount of time has passed. I don't see a problem with fans of an author giving 5 stars to all of their stories - if those fans are going to enjoy literally anything the author does even if it's terrible to others, it's still valid. And if the story is truly, truly horrible, someone is going to drop those 1 stars that will drag down the rating.

The issue we're trying to solve is stories being overlooked because of ratings. The things which encourage readers to read a story, even if the rating is low, are:
-Recommendations from other people ("You should check out this story, I'm reading it now and I love it")
-A strong synopsis that gives the reader confidence that what they want to read will be found inside this story
-Reviews that highlight the story's great points

That's why I suggested we add a recommendation area/feature to SH. Having another person say, "Don't worry about the ratings, I'm really enjoying this story" is so much more valuable than a star number.

Maybe there are other solutions which can help encourage readers to give new and low-rated stories a try. It's important to keep discussing and figuring it out. I'm just not convinced that placing limitations on the rating system is what will help.

 

[Ultrabenosaurus]

I personally think it is fine. This isn't translation, this is writing, and hopefully it encourages authors to not release until they have multiple chapters pre-written. If anything, I'd require that stories only show up on the site after 10 chapters.(unless it is a short story).

That said, I do wish there was something like vote weights. Where it keeps track of what tags some people constantly down vote (or up vote) and lowers the weight of the vote. I always face slap myself when people complain about a novel having something despite it being pretty clear it has it in the tags.

I don't know if that would be fair, or even work.

I mean, while I read a variety of things, I still have story elements which I prefer and so I read stories with those attributes more than others, and this I'm more likely to rate those stories highly. Not because I focus on rating certain tags and genres highly, but simply because they account for most of what I read and so they're a lot more likely to be rated by me. I will also still rate a story low if it's a bad story, even if it has those attributes.

If you're not very careful and very, very good at algorithms to the point of casually coding a sentient AI you'll end up with everyone's upvotes being neutered because everyone reads more of what they like than what they dislike and so everyone will upvote certain tags and genres more than others.

On the other hand, I don't understand the concept of downvoting stories for having tags or genres that I dislike, so I don't know how prevalent that is and can't comment on how well such a system would work when applied to downvotes. In fact, as far as I can recall, the only bad rating I have left on SH so far is for a story that included a certain topic which I dislike and had not put it in the tags or genres. Thus the system may ignore me or incorrectly connect my bad rating with unrelated tags and genres in the future?

 

[Ultrabenosaurus]

-Blocking, as in preventing anyone from rating at all when a story is posted, just discourages early feedback. If someone reads a story that a new author just posted, thinks, 'Oh, kay, this was a pretty fun read' and goes to rate it only to find that they can't, they're just going to exit out and move to the next thing. They're not going to remember to come back to rate it after X amount of time has passed. I don't see a problem with fans of an author giving 5 stars to all of their stories - if those fans are going to enjoy literally anything the author does even if it's terrible to others, it's still valid. And if the story is truly, truly horrible, someone is going to drop those 1 stars that will drag down the rating.

Maybe it'll balance out, maybe it won't. People who already don't like the author will avoid it or not even know they have released a new story. Meanwhile the hoard of 5* ratings and raving reviews will place the story highly in certain rankings and make it seem appealing to new readers who don't dismiss that author out of hand. So in the short- to medium-term it actually gives a very unfair advantage to established authors, as new authors get pushed down the rankings due to meaningless vote spamming by people who are purposefully abusing the system and skewing the figures.

 

[ars]

Maybe it'll balance out, maybe it won't. People who already don't like the author will avoid it or not even know they have released a new story. Meanwhile the hoard of 5* ratings and raving reviews will place the story highly in certain rankings and make it seem appealing to new readers who don't dismiss that author out of hand. So in the short- to medium-term it actually gives a very unfair advantage to established authors, as new authors get pushed down the rankings due to meaningless vote spamming by people who are purposefully abusing the system and skewing the figures.

Hmm, I think I understand where you're coming from. Though blocking ratings for new stories won't change the fact that established authors will always have fans to bolster their ratings, it would give a longer timeframe for those stories to not start outshining every other one, is what I'm getting.

I understand that this would be favorable for new and upcoming writers, but it still doesn't feel right to me to say that if someone like Ace (who has several stories dominating SH's Trending series) posted a new story, people shouldn't be allowed to give it high ratings because it'll automatically shoot to the top. I think that having sustained popularity and an enthusiastic fanbase is a result of an author's hard work. If you were in a position where you were extremely popular and all of your stories overshadowed others, I think it would be difficult to hear other people tell you that your stories don't deserve it, and they want to restrict you because you're stealing popularity and chances to shine away from them.

 

[Ultrabenosaurus]

Hmm, I think I understand where you're coming from. Though blocking ratings for new stories won't change the fact that established authors will always have fans to bolster their ratings, it would give a longer timeframe for those stories to not start outshining every other one, is what I'm getting.

I understand that this would be favorable for new and upcoming writers, but it still doesn't feel right to me to say that if someone like Ace (who has several stories dominating SH's Trending series) posted a new story, people shouldn't be allowed to give it high ratings because it'll automatically shoot to the top. I think that having sustained popularity and an enthusiastic fanbase is a result of an author's hard work. If you were in a position where you were extremely popular and all of your stories overshadowed others, I think it would be difficult to hear other people tell you that your stories don't deserve it, and they want to restrict you because you're stealing popularity and chances to shine away from them.

I'm not trying to say that established authors don't deserve fans and high ratings, I'm saying that new stories should at least start out equal on a level playing field regardless of whether it's the author's 1st or 101st. Otherwise those 1st stories will struggle a lot more than necessary and the lack of readers - arguably the most important metric - could be quite disheartening and demoralising to new authors. Even if they can't leave earrings and reviews the fans will still read the established author's work so they don't lose anything.

 

[LotusLily]

Maybe a thing can be changed with how things are weighed? If your goal is to give new writers an advantage over established writers, you might weigh their ratings more heavily when it comes to ranking.