Why even use (game-like) stats?

[CommonSense]

A lot of stories use game-like stats to determine how strong the characters are. However, a lot of them use "skills"/magic/technique to carry the fight/story rather than using stats advantage.
Like, a lot character scared to get poison without "poison resistance skill" even though they have stats high enough to endure poison for years...
or have high defense only to get injured by ordinary knife/sword....
or have 1000+ INT but still dumb but asf...

Most of fight scene are characters duking out their skills rather than overpowering opponent with stats anyway....
So why even bother to use game-like stats to describe your characters? won't it be better to just build system based on skills rather than stats?

 

[OliviaMyriad]

Because people that do that are stupid. A well written system story will take them both into account.

 

[AliceShiki]

They probably use it because it's a simple way of showing that a character got stronger... It's not something I think is a particularly good idea though.

 

[Nakakure]

It actually hassle since the reader also tend to didn't read it. Personally though there someone who if he list all his character stat and skill,maybe aroind 10k

 

[KaiKai]

Easy and very basic way to show progress i guess?

Unless you construct something of your own there are either „level system“ or „cultivation“ with the second being an even bigger a*spull and clusterfck than that level stuff.

 

[Jemini]

It actually hassle since the reader also tend to didn't read it. Personally though there someone who if he list all his character stat and skill,maybe aroind 10k

From personal reading experience, stories that do it have a good early draw in the first 20 or so chapters. It's around chapter 30-50 that readers (Or at least I) start to check out and not read the stats anymore, but by that time they are already invested in the story.

The problems with stats are that as the numbers start to tick on up, it creates an impression for the reader that the stats don't really matter anymore because they are just so ridiculous anyway. The author will sometimes try to recapture this attention by making the MC's stat growth go exponential with some MASSIVE sudden stat gains. This draws back attention for a short time, but it just burns all the reader's remaining interest in the stats in just that one go, so after you've played that card the readers will just about never pay attention to stats again.

Another issue is with skills. Once the skills list grows beyond a certain length, readers start to check out on the stats.

There is actually a very VERY simple way to deal with this problem, but it requires a LOT of discipline on the writer's part. That very very simple trick is to just stay small. Start with a number that you have figured for standard stats for your average adult human. (If you are going by D&D standards, this number will be 10.)

From here, make it VERY hard to increase stats, and set it to where even 1 point of stats gain is a HUGE freaking deal and makes a very big difference in your character's performance ability.

This being properly implemented, make it so that 5X your "average adult" stats numbers are considered the godly tier stats, and avoid even approaching that average X5 number. In fact, 2X average stats should be considered epic hero territory. (Again, basing this on D&D standards.)

Finally, keep your skills pool for the characters small as well. Do not grant more than 10 or so skills to your characters, and make every single one of them count.

Easily my favorite series to ever implement stats was Warlock of the Magus World. That series made the average adult human's stats 1, and a lot of measurements were in decimal points. So, you would see a lot of stats like "Str. 2.4, Agi. 3.5, Vit. 1.8" (Oh, yes, and it also only used 3 stats.) These are the kinds of stats you would see for a powerful altered magical wolf that requires the intervention of powerful knights or mages to defeat. That series really used it's stats judiciously, and the result was epic. It implemented it exactly right, and then a few dozen chapters in it showed a creature with stats close to 10 and my jaw dropped. Then, there was an epic level snake that had an Str. of 12, and that really let the reader know that this was the sort of thing that ought to have easily killed the entire party and you really felt worried for the MC when you saw that number due to how brutally close to death they came from that thing 10 or so chapters back that had stats close to 10.

 

[Mejiro]

Basically, if you're using stats, they should be actually meaningful and properly tracked. Not bouncing around the place, and everyone behaves as though people are within broadly normal ranges, when actually, there's people that can benchpress mountains wandering around.

 

[ShyMaskedMan]

how about average stats, total stats, main stats focus being describe might help?

 

[Dasneko]

I think many people are missing the most important part of stats and other similar features in stories. A large part of most stories is using things the reader is already familiar with as a means to both convey far more than what you are actually writing as well as make them comfortable. A good example is a health bar. If I describe a health bar in a story you will instantly know what it is, what it represents and what the implications are from a person taking damage or the health bar running out. All this without me having to say much more than that there was a green bar above someones head with a number in it.

They are useful and their simple to understand nature lets the story move much faster than having to explain what a "Dwarf" is or what a "Katana" does. Likewise stats have a similar informative purpose. It can tell you allot about a person at a quick glance which also includes enemies. Not only can you understand why a scrawny kid can toss mountains around by looking at their stats but you can understand it without them actually having to do it in the first place. This is a POWERFUL narrative tool that provides almost unlimited suspension of disbelief. If the stats says so then it has to be true right?

Of course like any tool it can be misused and probably frequently are. Their misuse however in no way shape or form detracts from their incredible usefulness when handled correctly.

 

[D4isuke]

Stats are for math genius... not for 'literature' genius. Most readers don't like reading stats because it's like calculating your strength just to overwhelm your enemies with your 'power of plot development', and it doesn't feel like you actually go for reading for the sake of logical reasoning. If there's some game-like elements in a particular story, then that world is the real simulation which the world is artificially built by another human (unless it has a purpose, then it's quite considerable).

But think about it, if this is a mere display of the story, then surely something can cover it up with... like the Rising Shield Hero that has stats on anime, but in fact, it is found within a certain artifact which he always keeping in the entire time. Both magic and science makes principally sense when the references are relevant to the case.

But if character consequently said about "Hey! I'm overpowered than you! You're just a fucking novice because I got more powerful stats than yours!" then clearly, what is the purpose for that? Is skills, HP, MP, or any kinds of count really 'count' at all? Imagine if you're a professional kendo player with Level 15 swordsman class, and a normal person that has Level 35 swordsman with no prior skills of kendo or any 'realistic talent' of swordsmanship skills. Who will win? A clever analyst? Or a 'keyboard' spammer?

 

[gaylolis]

i tend to not care when it gets long enough and the numbers got too much.

i prefer if they stick to short and simple ones. even as they got stronger. like they either have tiering system (like 9 strength - mortal realm, or 9 strength - immortal realm) or the world has a low power cap.

 

[Mejiro]

A lot varies depending on how they 'exist' within the fiction. Like, IRL, you could calculate a 'strength' score for someone. Put them in the gym, test what they can lift and how often, *bam*, you have a numeric rating that has value and meaning. But 'intelligence' or 'charisma' is far wobblier - one person can be great at memorising stuff, but crap at application, another person might be illiterate, but really quick at working out solutions. And you can have stats for these, but the more you break it down, the more complex everything gets. And if everyone can see/know stats, then that makes for really wierd worlds - yes, there will be people you don't deal with, because you know they will crush you, in any form of conflict. And schools are suchlike have an easy metric for grading - has someone's stat levelled enough? While IRL, that's far messier, because some people are good at tests but not actually doing something.

 

[LilithFairen]

I think many people are missing the most important part of stats and other similar features in stories. A large part of most stories is using things the reader is already familiar with as a means to both convey far more than what you are actually writing as well as make them comfortable. A good example is a health bar. If I describe a health bar in a story you will instantly know what it is, what it represents and what the implications are from a person taking damage or the health bar running out. All this without me having to say much more than that there was a green bar above someones head with a number in it.

They are useful and their simple to understand nature lets the story move much faster than having to explain what a "Dwarf" is or what a "Katana" does. Likewise stats have a similar informative purpose. It can tell you allot about a person at a quick glance which also includes enemies. Not only can you understand why a scrawny kid can toss mountains around by looking at their stats but you can understand it without them actually having to do it in the first place. This is a POWERFUL narrative tool that provides almost unlimited suspension of disbelief. If the stats says so then it has to be true right?

Of course like any tool it can be misused and probably frequently are. Their misuse however in no way shape or form detracts from their incredible usefulness when handled correctly.

I've seen LitRPGs with more exposition about health than regular fantasy stories exposit about dwarves. And while the later is typically an interesting part of worldbuilding and lore that can tie into or foreshadow the plot of the story, the former is just a basic, plain concept.

Likewise, when stats are given, what metric are those stats being weighed against? What does a STR of 100 mean? What is an average person's STR? What difference is there between 1 STR and 100 STR? Between 99 STR and 100 STR?

From what I've read, the three typical uses of stats seem to be (with overlap common between them):

1. Video game-iness.
2. Power fantasy fodder, providing a explicit rating for how much stronger the protagonist is getting (and how much stronger than other people the protagonist is).
3. Telling instead of showing. Rather than establishing the threat of an opponent through demonstrating why the opponent is a threat, there's simply a number that says "oh, this is gonna be bad!"

 

[BenJepheneT]

because objectivity is easier than subjectivity. which is to say, NNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRDS

 

[Dasneko]

I've seen LitRPGs with more exposition about health than regular fantasy stories exposit about dwarves. And while the later is typically an interesting part of worldbuilding and lore that can tie into or foreshadow the plot of the story, the former is just a basic, plain concept.

Likewise, when stats are given, what metric are those stats being weighed against? What does a STR of 100 mean? What is an average person's STR? What difference is there between 1 STR and 100 STR? Between 99 STR and 100 STR?

From what I've read, the three typical uses of stats seem to be (with overlap common between them):

1. Video game-iness.
2. Power fantasy fodder, providing a explicit rating for how much stronger the protagonist is getting (and how much stronger than other people the protagonist is).
3. Telling instead of showing. Rather than establishing the threat of an opponent through demonstrating why the opponent is a threat, there's simply a number that says "oh, this is gonna be bad!"

Of course just because you are using already known concepts such as stats or dwarfs does not mean you have to stick with established conventions. You could leave it at that if its not relevant or you could use it as a shortcut to your world building. I could for example try explain a fruit from scratch or I could say "Its an apple but pink". Likewise I could further define what the stats means for my story. Things like if its the objective measurement of someones strength like if we take the real world but you could somehow see how much someone could bench press. Nothing supernatural about it beyond just giving information.

It could also be an additive where the numbers are added to your original physical strength. As such a dragon with 5 strength would still have a massive advantage against a human with 5 strength due to their original specs. I am sure you can think of others and there is certainly more that both of us has never even thought of. Point is that it is not necessarily limiting your creativity or options for the story yet it lets the reader more easily understand the important parts. Going from whatever type of stats you originally thought of when reading it to something very different is a relatively small step compared to having to understand something completely new.

 

[weakwithwords]

A water sprite (since Hermes is on vacation) asks "Did you drop this commonsense/common-sense (adverb) or this common sense (noun)?"

"Uhm, no. I think I lost my marbles," Axe honestly replies.

"He is not common." (wuxia peanut gallery)

"It's over 9000!" (database z not scouting for idols)

In a certain web novel, the narrator claimed that a particular realm was the true beginning for cultivators. That's common. However, it is not typical for that to occur three times within the same story for different realms. Memory or confidence issues?

It also seems normal for these quantity-over-quality authors to lose track of side characters, lovers, pets, items, skills, levels, and ... chapter numbers. In contrast, they are almost always sure of the word count to the point that they know when they have to resort to padding with irrelevant author's notes.