Why doesn't SH scrub bad faith scores?

[Beta_Krogoth]

Hey folks, venting some frustration here as I've received a couple of unfair one star votes on a story of mine. Other websites i'm on allow the deletion of even the periodic scrubbing of bad faith votes and reviews on stories and i'm finding it increasing frustrating that SH doesn't do this.

One star votes are usually a "I don't like this genre/tag" or even "I don't like this author" as supposed to "the quality of this story is so bad that its one star" which isn't really representative of the story itself.

If you're not supposed to care about the rating, why is the system in place? SH lives and dies by its authors, it seems odd to me that they wouldn't maintain a rating system that allows for shitpost-esq reviews. Frankly, its killing my motivation to post on here. Anyone else finding the same issue? I was rated 4.5 stars at the beginning of the year, but a slow trickle of one-star reviews as dropped me to 3.7 as of today. The lack of comments or feedback accompanying it further annoys me. More and more, posting on SH feels like "whats the damn point" this year.

 

[ThisAdamGuy]

Can you prove they were made in bad faith, or are you just assuming they're in bad faith because they're bad scores?

 

[FlutterOfCrows]

I agree some level of allowance should be offered, though that does beg the question, what specifically qualifies as a Bad faith star here? You aren't required to put a review with it, maybe you genuinely find dozens of logical errors with the work.
So does that mean this function should only be used for reviews? But if thats the case, wont that lead to more mysterious one star reviews, so bad actors can avoid being targeted.
Its just sort of a whole mess.

 

[Beta_Krogoth]

Can you prove they were made in bad faith, or are you just assuming they're in bad faith because they're bad scores?

What am I? A scientist?

No, I get your point and to some extent, claiming that one star reviews are "bad faith" is absolutely a show of cockiness or self-confidence. I got a two star review from a person who did actually explain themselves and their reasoning was "I didn't fully understand the main character by the end of chapter 1 so its a two star review" and they also never give higher than three stars, nothing I can do about that. The one stars, I cannot "prove" are bad faith, no.

I still think they're horseshit. A one star review for me is supposed to be "I literally couldn't read it, it couldn't be any worse." which I don't believe for a second is representative of the quality. I can offer a "Why don't you read it yourself and tell me?" but honestly, that doesn't change anything. You might think its 5 stars, but that still doesn't 'prove' anything.

I agree some level of allowance should be offered, though that does beg the question, what specifically qualifies as a Bad faith star here? You aren't required to put a review with it, maybe you genuinely find dozens of logical errors with the work.
So does that mean this function should only be used for reviews? But if thats the case, wont that lead to more mysterious one star reviews, so bad actors can avoid being targeted.
Its just sort of a whole mess.

Granted, its not an easy problem to solve. Readers can tank scores visibly if they don't like you, but there is also the threat of removing freedom of expression and genuine scores with any level of scrutiny. But my preference right now is for some kind of control. Random 1 star reviews kill my motivation and i'm considering just deleting my account on here. I guess a question is "Is it more important to preserve authors egos and feelings or allow the audience to freely express themselves"

I don't know. Feels bad on this side of the fence though.

 

[Sabruness]

if you're getting bent out of shape over not having a near perfect rating, then writing publicly might not be the thing for you.

im guessing one of the other sites you post on is webnovel? yeah, that's not a good example. far from it

also, looking at what i presume is the ratings you're complaining about i noticed a few things:

1. you have 13 ratings (7 5*, 2 4*, 1 2* and 3 1*). for SH, and for what you're writing, i dont think that's bad. over 2/3rds are high ratings.

2. you're writing super kinky and hardcore fetish smut (by your own rating system in the desc). the fact you havent been snowed under by more 1*s is a little surprise, even given the general degeneracy of SH users.

3. feels like you're projecting a little that some people dont like your hardcore fetish smut fapfic. take a chill pill bruh

 

[Beta_Krogoth]

if you're getting bent out of shape over not having a near perfect rating, then writing publicly might not be the thing for you.

im guessing one of the other sites you post on is webnovel? yeah, that's not a good example. far from it

also, looking at what i presume is the ratings you're complaining about i noticed a few things:

1. you have 13 ratings (7 5*, 2 4*, 1 2* and 3 1*). for SH, and for what you're writing, i dont think that's bad. over 2/3rds are high ratings.

2. you're writing super kinky and hardcore fetish smut (by your own rating system in the desc). the fact you havent been snowed under by more 1*s is a little surprise, even given the general degeneracy of SH users.

3. feels like you're projecting a little that some people dont like your hardcore fetish smut fapfic. take a chill pill bruh

Regarding 3. I think I get frustrated that I'm absolutely upfront about that stuff, I don't want to ambush people, I'm not looking to ruffle any feathers, but people still seem to walk in and 1star me anyway. I'm fine with folks not liking it, i'm not under any impression that its mass-appeal stuff you know? But when someone ignores the warning sign, comes in and tells me i'm the problem, it don't feel amazing. Agree with your taking a chillpill comment though, since i've started taking my writing more seriously, i've been more emotional over it and i'm not sure how to stop that.

Regarding 2. I've generally had really good feedback. I've only had one person give me proper negative feedback that I couldn't do anything with.

and i'm on webnovel but its shite. RR and Literotica have been much better for ratings.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Putting aside how you can't really tell the real scores from review bombs, it's physically impossible to implement it on the site because there are like 2-4 mods or so and one dev (who is also a mod).

 

[WinterTimeCrime]

An easy fix to this would be to make 5-star and 1-star raters post a specific reason why they rated so highly or lowly, while 2-3-4 star raters needn't, as their reasons are more grounded on pros vs. cons.

But as some people stated above, public novels garner a spectrum of views, so if you don't like it, tough; Especially if it is something as niche as sci-fi harem smut.

Though looking at the first chapter, I don't even have to read it. I'd leave a 1-star rating for that atrocious ass spacing.

 

[Beta_Krogoth]

An easy fix to this would be to make 5-star and 1-star raters post a specific reason why they rated so highly or lowly, while 2-3-4 star raters needn't, as their reasons are more grounded on pros vs. cons.

But as some people stated above, public novels garner a spectrum of views, so if you don't like it, tough; Especially if it is something as niche as sci-fi harem smut.

Though looking at the first chapter, I don't even have to read it. I'd leave a 1-star rating for that atrocious ass spacing.

BAD FAITH! BAAAD FAITH!

SH butchers my text when I copy-paste it over. Its been no end of grief. I don't think I agree with the reasoning of "If its niche and weird, it'll get loads of 1 stars and that's the nature of it." That feels like a highway to samesville. I'll give it some thought. If SH isn't helping me as an author, I shouldn't be here.

 

[WinterTimeCrime]

BAD FAITH! BAAAD FAITH!

SH butchers my text when I copy-paste it over. Its been no end of grief. I don't think I agree with the reasoning of "If its niche and weird, it'll get loads of 1 stars and that's the nature of it." That feels like a highway to samesville. I'll give it some thought. If SH isn't helping me as an author, I shouldn't be here.

I post my stuff on ScribbleHub because I have friends here, and we enjoy critiquing each other's work. However, as I grew from a writer into an author with the ambition of putting my book on the shelf, I realized ScribbleHub is not the place to rely on to grow as an author.

I don't know what your goals are, but if it is for constant feedback and/or joining an ambitious writer's circle (or even releasing a best-selling novel), try Scribophile or r/DestructiveReaders. I've beta-read some of my favorite works there and met several exceptional authors. There are other websites and subreddits like that, too.

But you're putting too much faith into this place. I think of this website as a wormhole that shoots you into a black hole. You don't know where you will end up, but if you stay long enough, you will live in the abyss and never find a way out.

 

[Sabruness]

Regarding 3. I think I get frustrated that I'm absolutely upfront about that stuff, I don't want to ambush people, I'm not looking to ruffle any feathers, but people still seem to walk in and 1star me anyway. I'm fine with folks not liking it, i'm not under any impression that its mass-appeal stuff you know? But when someone ignores the warning sign, comes in and tells me i'm the problem, it don't feel amazing. Agree with your taking a chillpill comment though, since i've started taking my writing more seriously, i've been more emotional over it and i'm not sure how to stop that.

Regarding 2. I've generally had really good feedback. I've only had one person give me proper negative feedback that I couldn't do anything with.

and i'm on webnovel but its shite. RR and Literotica have been much better for ratings.

eh, 1*s happen on SH. either ignore or do like some others do and meme it. these days, you actually have to add a novel to a reading list to rate it so most people probably wouldnt bother with the effort of putting a novel on a list just to give it a 1*.
plus SH's general culture isnt big on ratings and reviews. Often, but not always, chapter comments are where you'll find the 'help' and 'validation' sorta stuff because more people are generally likely to leave chapter comments than do a whole review.

i do disagree with WinterTimeCrime's reasoning that 'niche and weird doesnt rate' though. there's plenty of niche and weird on SH but it mostly just gets ignored by those not interested (except for the few nutters who make it their life's work to shit on things they dont like), which is better than a lot of other sites. That's why there's a sizeable trans story community here because they left other sites that were toxic.

It's also a matter of staffing. It's Tony (boss and sole dev) and a few mods in a volunteer capacity. making a fully fledged rating system would be more effort than would be worth so the current system is about as good as it'll get. any egregiously bad comments or reviews can still be reported and dealt with though. RR is a mega site and Lit is a mega site and business so it's kinda an apples and oranges comparison.

If you want super duper detailed feedback, SH isnt the place. if you want an otherwise dedicated readerbase, SH is the place.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Personally I think requiring an explanation for 1 or 5 star ratings would be good but probably unenforceable. I know a lot of sites that have ratings have a "cut-off" where, once you hit a certain threshold, it ignores a set number of lowest and highest scores to create the average (and most of them have it scale up, so that, at, say 10, a single one-star and single 5 star will be removed; at, say, 50, two of each are omitted, etc.)

 

[WinterTimeCrime]

i do disagree with WinterTimeCrime's reasoning that 'niche and weird doesnt rate' though. there's plenty of niche and weird on SH but it mostly just gets ignored by those not interested (except for the few nutters who make it their life's work to shit on things they dont like), which is better than a lot of other sites. That's why there's a sizeable trans story community here because they left other sites that were toxic.

I never said weird, and niche wouldn't rate well.

But as some people stated above, public novels garner a spectrum of views, so if you don't like it, tough; Especially if it is something as niche as sci-fi harem smut.

Web novels that are seen by hundreds of thousands will have hundreds of thousands of perspectives linked to them—which I explained in the first line. The second is me stating that it is difficult for those perspectives to make exceptions the more they adhere to a specific group. For instance, sci-fi is okay; everyone has watched or seen something space-alieny at some point in their lives.

Sci-Fi Harem? Alright, who doesn't like several love interests? Of course, the circle is made smaller.

Then, unadulterated smut, and you lose an exceptional amount of sci-fi and/or harem fans, which throws people into the dubious task of loving it or hating it, with no middle line.

That's probably why there aren't many people commenting or giving feedback to particular niches like OP's book because either they haven't read many books like them (and thus can't compare good points vs. bad), or they're just reading for a very specific reason (for the violence, sex, etc.).

 

[Nolff]

Hey folks, venting some frustration here as I've received a couple of unfair one star votes on a story of mine. Other websites i'm on allow the deletion of even the periodic scrubbing of bad faith votes and reviews on stories and i'm finding it increasing frustrating that SH doesn't do this.

One star votes are usually a "I don't like this genre/tag" or even "I don't like this author" as supposed to "the quality of this story is so bad that its one star" which isn't really representative of the story itself.

If you're not supposed to care about the rating, why is the system in place? SH lives and dies by its authors, it seems odd to me that they wouldn't maintain a rating system that allows for shitpost-esq reviews. Frankly, its killing my motivation to post on here. Anyone else finding the same issue? I was rated 4.5 stars at the beginning of the year, but a slow trickle of one-star reviews as dropped me to 3.7 as of today. The lack of comments or feedback accompanying it further annoys me. More and more, posting on SH feels like "whats the damn point" this year.

You either cope with it by ignoring the reviews or take a little intimate approach and confront them by replying to those reviews.

And one bonus point, you should be glad that people leave reviews on your works. Look at mine and others' stories, we rarely have any. And, bout the rating system, it's not a good one nor a bad one. It's a decent one.

Remember, you have the right to ignore them reviewers. You are not obliged to listen to them, look for those who actually enjoy your content. Those who like your stuff are the people you can ask for a review, though you better be aware of the bias. If... Uhh... When you have a beta reader, ask them to review your story.
Or go with this better option; If a writer of the same genre you're writing on reads your work and they like your novel, do request a favor. It's even better if they've been writing hard smut longer than you and attracted many people's attention.

So,
Be glad,
And compose yourself.

The internet is magical, never be narrow-minded. You'll regret it when you do.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

Hey folks, venting some frustration here as I've received a couple of unfair one star votes on a story of mine. Other websites i'm on allow the deletion of even the periodic scrubbing of bad faith votes and reviews on stories and i'm finding it increasing frustrating that SH doesn't do this.

One star votes are usually a "I don't like this genre/tag" or even "I don't like this author" as supposed to "the quality of this story is so bad that its one star" which isn't really representative of the story itself.

If you're not supposed to care about the rating, why is the system in place? SH lives and dies by its authors, it seems odd to me that they wouldn't maintain a rating system that allows for shitpost-esq reviews. Frankly, its killing my motivation to post on here. Anyone else finding the same issue? I was rated 4.5 stars at the beginning of the year, but a slow trickle of one-star reviews as dropped me to 3.7 as of today. The lack of comments or feedback accompanying it further annoys me. More and more, posting on SH feels like "whats the damn point" this year.

The admin here, Tony, does that. The downside is, we have to message him and provide evidence that the rating was made in bad faith. It might take some time, or nothing was done, depending on how he sees reason behind the request.

As for us authors, rating manipulation on our side can be abused where all the bad revs are seen as 'bad faith' and deleted. Well, it's not like I don't understand your complaint; I've been there, just that I learned not to care about ratings coz readers are inherently biased (even if they claim they don't.) Like us, they will never explain why they did such thing (similar to us who can't be bothered to define bad faith).

Webnovel does this, actually, on the pain that you tend to stumble across hot, mediocre at best, works.

And another alternative is to remove rating system and replace it with likes, just like in Wattpad and Honeyfeed. However, I doubt it will be implemented here.

Best solution for now? Ask Tony, and provide evidences. Otherwise, we just have to buckle down for a bumpy writing ride.

 

[Anonjohn20]

Other websites i'm on allow the deletion of even the periodic scrubbing of bad faith votes and reviews on stories

Because to some authors, every negative score or review feels like it was done "in bad faith."

Random 1 star reviews kill my motivation and i'm considering just deleting my account on here.

You shouldn't be this thin-skinned if you're releasing your work to the public.

if you're getting bent out of shape over not having a near perfect rating, then writing publicly might not be the thing for you.

This. btw if he's writing smut I might check out his work. SmutHub grows again!


Okay I checked the author's main story. It has smut and futa, so I might love it; I also see a rape tag, so I might hate it. In other news, the story has been rated by only 14 people and reviewed by 1 person so this is definitely making a mountain out of a molehill

 

[Corty]

Amongst all of the 1-star ratings I received, I can only prove 2 were in bad faith. No, not even bad faith, simply because the readers disliked the direction of the story and the MC after 4 chapters, and they were made as if I broke their favorite pacifiers. This means that they weren't really in bad faith, so the numbers go down to 0 provable bad faith ratings.

There was only one 1-star review I saw, and I even reported it. That one was 100% in bad faith as it included arguments from the comment sections under chapters, attacking the writer and doing it in a way so he could have the last say, as there is no option to reply or dislike reviews. That was promptly removed after being reported.

Anyway, I get the frustration; it is what it is, but removing ratings would lead to abuse like how it is on WN. Then all the ratings and reviews became untrustable which is as good as killing the platform, IMO.

 

[Beta_Krogoth]

Appreciate everyone's responses above.

To those who say I should be tougher if I'm posting my work in public: How dare you . Honestly, I used to be thicker skinned than this, over the last couple years though I've made a more focused effort with my writing and since then, I've been more emotional about it. I do agree that I need to reinforce this part of me, especially when I've decided I won't be changing the genre of my work or removing more contentious elements.

And I get the point about making reviews untrustable to any degree and how authors could easily abuse a scrubbing system to simply remove reviews they don't personally agree with.