Why aren't people using quotes and dialogue tags?

[DschingisKhan]

I've seen a fair number of stories at this point with a similar quirk.

- Specifically, one where dialogue looks like this (Khan)

That is, there's no quotation marks but instead a leading hyphen. In lieu of useful tags, the name of the character is just lazily slapped into parentheses at the end.

Where did this come from? I'd think it a quirk of an individual if it wasn't cropping up more and more. But that implies someone is teaching it as if it's good or standard practice... what in the world is going on here?

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Is it bad though?

 

[LostLibrarian]

There are multiple sources for different things, but I would guess it's copied from JP webnovel-translations.

Japanese is a bit different in that it doesn't have a question mark and doesn't need as many tags, because it's easier to identify the speaker through choice of words/Keigo or just by the usual anime stick of some people using their name as identifier. E.g. 'Miyuka wa' would become '"I...", Miyuki said.'
So a lot of translations just translate the sentences and add the names behind for those who can't follow the flow. People who want to emulate japanese webnovels might use a similar style.

JP webnovels also often use 「」instead of "", so the - might just be a different variation that makes less typing work. After all some people write via phone or tablet. And less time for format is more time to write...



That said, I don't think it's that big of a trend. Most novels I looked into use standard english quotes and tags...

 

[LifeContinuesOn]

I started doing that in a few of my stories as I thought using He said, she said, _____ said, would get to repetitive, but I am starting to write using them, my common way of writing was: "This is normal." (Me) for first person, and then "This seems normal," (??? person), mainly because I thought it was easier. I am now to writing like: "In the end it was not normal," She said with a nod.

I am sorry if it's difficult to read, I am starting to edit it out in my stories. I don't know if people are copying me exactly, but it was an easy way to portray speech in my opinion.

(EDIT) I might have misunderstood the question wrong but my answer still stands I guess.

 

[LuxInTenebris]

I am now to writing like: "In the end it was not normal," She said with a nod.

Why are people capitalizing pronouns She\He after quotes in lieu of she\he? RE:

I've seen a fair number of stories at this point with a similar quirk.

Where did this come from? I'd think it a quirk of an individual if it wasn't cropping up more and more. But that implies someone is teaching it as if it's good or standard practice... what in the world is going on here?

 

[GDLiZy]

Because people are too lazy to learn proper grammar and punctuation. Good luck using your own format and expecting the readers to understand it.

 

[Deleted member 45782]

Because they think it makes them unique or some sort. Like a unique style of writing.

But most likely...its gonna flop and its just gonna show you have a very horrible and messy way of writing things.

 

[BubbleC]

Tch, tch, tch. Isn't it obvious? Why type two quotation marks when you can just type one dash? That's half the work! Plus, figuring out creative dialogue tags = brainpower = pain.

It's clear you're still an amateur with how you value grammar over efficiency. Smh.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go re-read Invisible Dragon for the nth time to cleanse my eyes of this stupidity. I suggest you read it too if you want to become a truly prolific writer.

 

[LostLibrarian]

Invisible Dragon

“Kuaaaaa”
the strongest among dragons the invisible dragon roared

Still waiting for the live-action adaptation :(

 

[skillet]

I've always thought that might be because many of these people aren't (1) English native speakers/haven't consumed a lot of English novels (maybe) and (2) they came from the translations first, which (as others have pointed out) do have those kinds of dialogue tags. --> some Korean novels as well, such as the Naver ones, don't have tags because they have a little profile pic in front of every dialogue that tells you, like the below:

Spoiler: EXAMPLE

...so the translations might, in lieu of doing that themselves (which would be so much work), probably do the "quote here" (character name) format.

If they are as I think they are, they're probably doing their best and writing because of the same need/wish to write more of the novels they want to read/write that are inspired by the translated ones they'd read. Can't really blame them if the translations were all that they were coming from :)

 

[nosinkarma]

Yes, seen this form of writing in some jp light novels weebs eberybere!!(Me)

 

[RepresentingCaution]

And then there are those people who use single quotation marks *shudder*

 

[Varstark]

And then there are those people who use single quotation marks *shudder*

That's just the British. Unless they're using American spelling. Then you can shudder.

 

[Deleted member 45782]

I've always thought that might be because many of these people aren't (1) English native speakers/haven't consumed a lot of English novels (maybe) and (2) they came from the translations first, which (as others have pointed out) do have those kinds of dialogue tags. --> some Korean novels as well, such as the Naver ones, don't have tags because they have a little profile pic in front of every dialogue that tells you, like the below:

Spoiler: EXAMPLE

View attachment 7444

...so the translations might, in lieu of doing that themselves (which would be so much work), probably do the "quote here" (character name) format.

If they are as I think they are, they're probably doing their best and writing because of the same need/wish to write more of the novels they want to read/write that are inspired by the translated ones they'd read. Can't really blame them if the translations were all that they were coming from :)

Ah gp. Didn’t realize that. Though I do know one who says its their style of writing, not so much bc they're not good at writing in English yet. But there's probably others who are writing in different formats since english is not their native writing language too.

That's just the British. Unless they're using American spelling. Then you can shudder.

Yeah, I think heard British format is a bit different. Surprised to see "this," vs "this", once when came across it and wondered why comma was outside quotes and different.

 

[DschingisKhan]

Sounds like the origin is lazy translators, then, and other people are copying that. Huh. I hadn't realised the problem ran quite so deep. Thanks.

Is it bad though?

Yes. Setting aside the fact that it just looks strange and makes reading harder, it almost completely robs you, the author, of your ability to add inflectional nuance and liveliness, leading to bland characters with boring dialogue.

 

[morhamza]

*covering face in shame*
I actually came really close to writing like that. The way I got to scribblehub was through Novelupdates. I thought the user base would essentially be the same, if not, then it'll be really similar.
A lot of the translated work I read used tags like those. It never really bothered me too much and I didn't see anyone complain, so I thought it would be fine.
Thankfully once I started writing I just couldn't do it. It turns out using quotations was a lot more natural for me. My story doesn't have a lot of dialogue yet, so I haven't faced to problem of repetitive he said she said tags.

 

[MadmanRB]

Because people are too lazy to learn proper grammar and punctuation. Good luck using your own format and expecting the readers to understand it.

Not necessarily so, some people just be more adapt or used to a certain writing style and apply it to their own works.
I mean script fics are popular for a reason as a script is easier to refer to then a typical novel as each author can vary in both grammar and punctuation depending on their level of education and or skill.
And yes maybe some people are using Japanese Light novels as reference, I personally don't see harm in this if its from a younger audience or a non-English speaker or a person with a mild form of dyslexia/autism like myself who may not have a full grasp of typical grammar and punctuation conventions.
Everyone has a starting point after all.
I know I myself have a punctuation and grammar issue thus why I use tools like Prowritingaid and languagetool which is at least better than nothing though sometimes those tools can be a bit clunky, and sometimes I have to fight them to not feel as artificial even if it leaves my writing grammatically incorrect it is better than the quirks caused by such tools.

 

[Ai-chan]

And then there are those people who use single quotation marks *shudder*

Do you mean the difference between ' and "?

One is for quotation, the other is for dialogue. That is in case you're wondering why people use ' instead of ".

 

[lnv]

I started doing that in a few of my stories as I thought using He said, she said, _____ said, would get to repetitive, but I am starting to write using them, my common way of writing was: "This is normal." (Me) for first person, and then "This seems normal," (??? person), mainly because I thought it was easier. I am now to writing like: "In the end it was not normal," She said with a nod.

The he said, she said has so much underutilized potential. I think it pretty much makes up a big portion of my flavor of writing style.

And then there are those people who use single quotation marks *shudder*

I've seen single quotations to be used for inner dialog, to differentiate it from dialog said out loud. Which isn't too bad, better than those using double quotes for inner dialog.

Sounds like the origin is lazy translators, then, and other people are copying that. Huh. I hadn't realised the problem ran quite so deep. Thanks.

It isn't lazy translators. The problem as mentioned is that japanese language and English work differently. In many of the japanese works when translators don't do this, then it becomes almost impossible to differentiate who says what when more than 2 people talk.

Because adding your own speech patterns can warp the meaning of the sentence, and speech patterns are a dumb idea to begin with. It might work fine for light or actual novels when one is chain reading. But if a person reads a web novel over time, amongst the dozens of other novels they are reading, they are gonna forget people's speech patterns. Even more so for less used characters. Adding he said or she said can also change the flow of the reading.

Of course I do agree that authors shouldn't be copying translators and do it properly. But for translations, adding the name in brackets is a must.

 

[DschingisKhan]

I'm glad we ultimately agree on the original topic, but I have reservations about some of this post...

It isn't lazy translators.

If you don't translate the text in a way that conveys the meaning, it's a bad translation.

The problem as mentioned is that japanese language and English work differently.

You say this, but they don't actually work THAT differently in practice. A lot of the difficulty people have is just that Japanese tends to rely a lot more on context, is all. It can absolutely be a challenge, but it's not insurmountable or unusual. ?‍

Because adding your own speech patterns can warp the meaning of the sentence, and speech patterns are a dumb idea to begin with. It might work fine for light or actual novels when one is chain reading. But if a person reads a web novel over time, amongst the dozens of other novels they are reading, they are gonna forget people's speech patterns. Even more so for less used characters. Adding he said or she said can also change the flow of the reading.

If it doesn't capture the essence and intent of the original text, well, that's ALSO a bad translation.

I'm not sure precisely what you're on about when you single out speech patterns as dumb, but your whole diatribe feels like it contradicts itself there once you get to the problem of characters not being distinct.

But for translations, adding the name in brackets is a must.

Wow. Now that's... uhm, a bold take. It's wrong, but I respect the audacity.