What makes an action interesting?

[laccoff_mawning]

What makes an action story tick?

I believe all stories- or genres of stories- have something that makes them interesting.

For comedies, its the gags. Simple enough.
For romance (in my opinion) it's the small, lighthearted interactions between the ML and FL, although I suppose in general it's much broader than that.

If we look at something like slice of life, it's the casual and relaxed style. It explores other genres through day-to-day events without the need for action. I could rant on about SoL or comedy for longer, but this thread isn't about those.

And that got me thinking about action. I can't analyse it satisfactorily in my head. So I'll write what I think here, and I'll be asking for all your opinions on it.

Firstly, it's not the plot thats interesting. for example, Anybody can write a story about a hero slaying a dragon; few can make it interesting.
Therefore, it's something in the build-up. But what that element is eludes me somewhat. Suspense? The desire of good triumphing? The motives and desires of the characters clashing?
If any of you read/write an action novel, please elaborate on what your brain looks for that makes it interesting/enjoyable.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

The way it was written in terms of technicalities.

 

[BigBadBoi]

It's the action scenes. You don't need to make it too detailed but you shouldn't make it too simple either. Basically you should write a shounen anime fight scene in writing form. Show don't tell.

 

[Cortavar]

The stakes.

To do a good action scene or story, you need to build up stakes. A playground brawl can be more riveting than a fight with a millennial dragon, if you set the scene right.

Few people want to read about a murder hobo who kills monsters for the sake of killing monsters. Now if that same protagonist either has something he needs from the fight, and/or something he could lose, the story becomes instantly interesting.

You don't need "save the world" or even "survive" stakes for every action scene, sometimes, succeeding only has emotional or symbolic value for the protagonist.

Look at Karate Kid: the tournament is one of the most low stakes things in the grand scheme of things, it's a local middle school karate tournament, so not really a big deal. Except it is for Daniel-San, in fact, a big deal: it's the culmination of his training, of his hopes and dreams. And so we're hooked into the stakes with the protagonist, and the action seems riveting while it's in reality two thirteen year old kids clumsily throwing punches.

Yeah, you need writing skills and a good balance of description vs speed, but without stakes, you can't have a good action scene or story.

 

[HungrySheep]

The stakes.

To do a good action scene or story, you need to build up stakes. A playground brawl can be more riveting than a fight with a millennial dragon, if you set the scene right.

Few people want to read about a murder hobo who kills monsters for the sake of killing monsters. Now if that same protagonist either has something he needs from the fight, and/or something he could lose, the story becomes instantly interesting.

You don't need "save the world" or even "survive" stakes for every action scene, sometimes, succeeding only has emotional or symbolic value for the protagonist.

Look at Karate Kid: the tournament is one of the most low stakes things in the grand scheme of things, it's a local middle school karate tournament, so not really a big deal. Except it is for Daniel-San, in fact, a big deal: it's the culmination of his training, of his hopes and dreams. And so we're hooked into the stakes with the protagonist, and the action seems riveting while it's in reality two thirteen year old kids clumsily throwing punches.

Yeah, you need writing skills and a good balance of description vs speed, but without stakes, you can't have a good action scene or story.

Exactly this. There's no point in a story where all the action is pointless.

 

[Tsuru]

What makes an action story tick?

I believe all stories- or genres of stories- have something that makes them interesting.

For comedies, its the gags. Simple enough.
For romance (in my opinion) it's the small, lighthearted interactions between the ML and FL, although I suppose in general it's much broader than that.

If we look at something like slice of life, it's the casual and relaxed style. It explores other genres through day-to-day events without the need for action. I could rant on about SoL or comedy for longer, but this thread isn't about those.

And that got me thinking about action. I can't analyse it satisfactorily in my head. So I'll write what I think here, and I'll be asking for all your opinions on it.

Firstly, it's not the plot thats interesting. for example, Anybody can write a story about a hero slaying a dragon; few can make it interesting.
Therefore, it's something in the build-up. But what that element is eludes me somewhat. Suspense? The desire of good triumphing? The motives and desires of the characters clashing?
If any of you read/write an action novel, please elaborate on what your brain looks for that makes it interesting/enjoyable.

That is the thing.

The biggest advice of all advices of the list of advices for authors : READ MORE

But if i had a personal oppinion. It would be "novelty".

Especially for chinese WNs where you have probably dozens of new novels PER DAY. Where each author try to make it big. Where any 99% of young generation know about WNs and can write with their phones. Where money is paramount to their lives. Where competition is so harsh is that you must remarkable with early 3 chaps or you are dead series, OR even dead if THE TITLE/summary is boring, hence they began copying the method of JAPAN with funny or long titles. If we could count there would probably 1million chinese WNs, because just from one raw website there is already 249k.

If before in 2010, the authors often had garbage series but some masterpieces, and i used the motto "mountain of shit with gems inside"
now on 2020+ internet (on their side/Raws) readers became picky and too easy to start own novel. Kids (like me) grew up into adults, reading them and know WHAT IS GOOD or BAD.
To the point we know of knowing MOST if not ALL cliches/routines. (Ex : death flag, betrayal flag, etc)
And that is why so many good chinese WNs appear, is because the authors were readers like me. Unlike previous gold generation that wrote with just experience of paper novels or old drama TVs.
Now 2023 chinese authors, already OVERused all cliches, and invent ton of new stuff if they want to stay "competitive" and attractive to readers.
Medical novels, written by medical staff, if not the author use their times to study TRUE MEDICAL INFOS-DATA
Law novels, one motherfucker (amical way to call him op), mention he regularly watch the livestream of the court and warn readers they can be boring.
Food novels ? Author(s) must know the recipes, or know the steps, or eaten them. Taster MC ? Author get helped by readers but mention real restaurants.
That is how harsh the competition became for them. Like actors that train hours, the authors (most of them) use hours behind the scenes JUST TO RESEARCH.

AUTHORS are LIKE GAME DEVS COMPANIES
if they don't even know anything about GAMES or like their own games OF COURSE IT SUCK
(cough Diablo4 cough gollum cough forsaken cough)

Another point,
and is PROBABLY why you can't find this "interesting point" (WARNING HARSH truth WORDS incoming)
is because you lost your childiness innocence of childhood. Or you just have bad talent for writing. Or probably just your personality.
In other terms, you don't understand "WHAT IS FUN"

Example. Let's say you are tasked to write a electricity MC. What would you do ?
Thing is, for chinese authors, they simply "LET GO" of imagination and/or go the technological way of STUDYING the market, know what is done or not already, and try to write from the research-data.
MC can enter internet by turning electricity, MC is super hacker, MC become the FLASH, MC create his own electricity company low key, MC become a magician for shows, MC become a vigilante, MC join the police / gov, MC discover hidden power society (urg i hate that), alien invasion where only MC can fight, MC etccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

^To tell you, simply write what you AND/OR readers can find FUN.
But sadly, if you YOURSELF can understand what is fun? Or you didn't read enough / don't know enough about the "market" and novels, or the problem come yourself (talent/brain/age/personality/understanding/laughing-point/place of birth/language/etc)
Maybe or maybe not your fault. As i also suck at writing BUT got very high talent to "edit". Sadly i can't go to japan to become an editor.
------------------------
Another thing
and is what authors (tv shows, movies, animes, games) aim at most of the times, biggest goal
is to make "readers immerse in it/forget reality"
See why woke things are hated ? See why propaganda chinese WNs are hated ?
Because it break "immersion".
Because like streamers said "we don't care about this shit, games is for escapism, we want to forget the shitty reality"
We don't want to see while playing the FEMALE prota acting like feminist, we don't want to see the MC praise CHINA NAMBA ONE every 5chaps

That is also why so much research on stuff is done or "exaggeration" is has-been style for acting (unless done well comedy).
Because sure immersion is to escape reality but if the product is totally unreal with 0 ressemblance to reality, than the reader can't even start trying to immerse. There should be a mix of reality but unreal.

Both anchor and exploring the unknown, to make the reader like a sea-diver. Forget about shitty job-boss, forget about shitty wife, forget about taxes, forget about age-death, forget about what to annoyingly cook tomorrow, etc

They want to have "fun". See magic world with INTERESTING powers, see doctor save people, see a lawyer send the criminal in OR the jury-judge in, see a vigilante kill criminals unlike batman or the police, see jokes never done, see trolling MCs, see INVINCIBLE mcs, see MEGA SMART mcs, see villains be the MC, see peaceful life of MC with waifu, see harem, see how to make money if back in time, see food, see toxic MC, see MC bashing women or killing them, see a female MC, see yuri, see yaoi, see gay jokes, see dad jokes, see fanfic, see batman, see ironman, see a MC that know the future plot and reveal to them, see MC save people that died in original work, see MC become batman-ironman, see MC befriend hulk, see MC trolling changing the plot in advance, see MC get widow maker and not beta-banner, see MC wake-up heroes by slapping them, see MC get gwen and not the "spiderman" of multiverse (not existing in the novel), see kuudere, see yanderes, see MC onepunch things, see MC tanking op attacks without a flinch, see spaceships, see horror, see giant robots, see time stop powers, see mind control, see gravity powers, see IMMORTAL-age MC, see pokemon, see otaku become sygma man, see A NOT DENSE PROTAG GET WAIFU, see DAKKA GUN BLAZING, see fucking nukes, see patients thanking doctor MC, see movie directors recreating movies of earth in alternate reality, see chinese young masters being killed on the spot, see MC have sex, see anime waifus have sex, see MC ntr the protag or villain, see MC shoot people, see MC poison people, see MC have a zoo, see MC have a tank in medieval times, see MC use guns in medieval times, see MC being worshipped, see MC being crazy, see MC being a priest, see MC being a god, see MC saving earth, see MC etc etc etc

To say again

TLDR : READ MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE SOME MORE AND MORE AND MORE MOAR read MOAR

 

[RepresentingCaution]

It depends mostly on what the readers enjoy.

 

[Cipiteca396]

I read action for the adrenaline rush.

For an action scene to work, it just needs to immerse you in the fight. When you read the words, you should feel the impact of every action, you should boil with frustration when the pov gets hit or misses an attack, you should exult when a trick or tactic works.

You can base your action on plot, or stakes, or whatever. But those things aren't necessary. Likewise, you can have a fight without action. You can have action without a fight. Rhythm games tend to be action packed, yet don't have a single moment of combat.

So I suppose... The reader needs to feel like they're winning or losing. Either works. Can even switch them mid fight.

 

[Cortavar]

That is the thing.

The biggest advice of all advices of the list of advices for authors : READ MORE

But if i had a personal oppinion. It would be "novelty".

Especially for chinese WNs where you have probably dozens of new novels PER DAY. Where each author try to make it big. Where any 99% of young generation know about WNs and can write with their phones. Where money is paramount to their lives. Where competition is so harsh is that you must remarkable with early 3 chaps or you are dead series, OR even dead if THE TITLE/summary is boring, hence they began copying the method of JAPAN with funny or long titles. If we could count there would probably 1million chinese WNs, because just from one raw website there is already 249k.

If before in 2010, the authors often had garbage series but some masterpieces, and i used the motto "mountain of shit with gems inside"
now on 2020+ internet (on their side/Raws) readers became picky and too easy to start own novel. Kids (like me) grew up into adults, reading them and know WHAT IS GOOD or BAD.
To the point we know of knowing MOST if not ALL cliches/routines. (Ex : death flag, betrayal flag, etc)
And that is why so many good chinese WNs appear, is because the authors were readers like me. Unlike previous gold generation that wrote with just experience of paper novels or old drama TVs.
Now 2023 chinese authors, already OVERused all cliches, and invent ton of new stuff if they want to stay "competitive" and attractive to readers.
Medical novels, written by medical staff, if not the author use their times to study TRUE MEDICAL INFOS-DATA
Law novels, one motherfucker (amical way to call him op), mention he regularly watch the livestream of the court and warn readers they can be boring.
Food novels ? Author(s) must know the recipes, or know the steps, or eaten them. Taster MC ? Author get helped by readers but mention real restaurants.
That is how harsh the competition became for them. Like actors that train hours, the authors (most of them) use hours behind the scenes JUST TO RESEARCH.

AUTHORS are LIKE GAME DEVS COMPANIES
if they don't even know anything about GAMES or like their own games OF COURSE IT SUCK
(cough Diablo4 cough gollum cough forsaken cough)

Another point,
and is PROBABLY why you can't find this "interesting point" (WARNING HARSH truth WORDS incoming)
is because you lost your childiness innocence of childhood. Or you just have bad talent for writing. Or probably just your personality.
In other terms, you don't understand "WHAT IS FUN"

Example. Let's say you are tasked to write a electricity MC. What would you do ?
Thing is, for chinese authors, they simply "LET GO" of imagination and/or go the technological way of STUDYING the market, know what is done or not already, and try to write from the research-data.
MC can enter internet by turning electricity, MC is super hacker, MC become the FLASH, MC create his own electricity company low key, MC become a magician for shows, MC become a vigilante, MC join the police / gov, MC discover hidden power society (urg i hate that), alien invasion where only MC can fight, MC etccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

^To tell you, simply write what you AND/OR readers can find FUN.
But sadly, if you YOURSELF can understand what is fun? Or you didn't read enough / don't know enough about the "market" and novels, or the problem come yourself (talent/brain/age/personality/understanding/laughing-point/place of birth/language/etc)
Maybe or maybe not your fault. As i also suck at writing BUT got very high talent to "edit". Sadly i can't go to japan to become an editor.
------------------------
Another thing
and is what authors (tv shows, movies, animes, games) aim at most of the times, biggest goal
is to make "readers immerse in it/forget reality"
See why woke things are hated ? See why propaganda chinese WNs are hated ?
Because it break "immersion".
Because like streamers said "we don't care about this shit, games is for escapism, we want to forget the shitty reality"
We don't want to see while playing the FEMALE prota acting like feminist, we don't want to see the MC praise CHINA NAMBA ONE every 5chaps

That is also why so much research on stuff is done or "exaggeration" is has-been style for acting (unless done well comedy).
Because sure immersion is to escape reality but if the product is totally unreal with 0 ressemblance to reality, than the reader can't even start trying to immerse. There should be a mix of reality but unreal.

Both anchor and exploring the unknown, to make the reader like a sea-diver. Forget about shitty job-boss, forget about shitty wife, forget about taxes, forget about age-death, forget about what to annoyingly cook tomorrow, etc


To say again

TLDR : READ MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE SOME MORE AND MORE AND MORE MOAR read MOAR

I agree with encouraging reading, it's always better when an author is well-read themselves. Maybe spend some time on tvtropes to familiarize yourself with the tools you have available.

As for the Chinese scene, it honestly sounds like a depressing way to mass-produce novels that are "just-below-average". Yeah, marketing your novel is good if you aim to be an author, but most of the works that caught up my attention are those where the writer wrote the story they wanted to tell, not the story I wanted to read.

Know your tropes, know your market if you want, but above all write with your own brain and guts! If you don't put anything of you in your work, it always shows. And on the contrary, bellow average works in terms of writing skills can be strangely addictive because you can feel that the author is having fun with their story.

The world is big, and the true gems will eventually shine. Arm yourself with knowledge, but do your own stuff: if you fail, you'll have done something for yourself, if you succeed, you'll keep doing something you love. Way better than getting stuck into a successful story that's not truly yours: that's a recipe for burnout.

I also have a question about the Chinese writing scene: are some people writing criticism of the current regime under the guise of fiction as well, Persian Letters style? Or do the authorities catch up with them and clamp it down immediately?

 

[Tsuru]

I agree with encouraging reading, it's always better when an author is well-read themselves. Maybe spend some time on tvtropes to familiarize yourself with the tools you have available.

As for the Chinese scene, it honestly sounds like a depressing way to mass-produce novels that are "just-below-average". Yeah, marketing your novel is good if you aim to be an author, but most of the works that caught up my attention are those where the writer wrote the story they wanted to tell, not the story I wanted to read.

Know your tropes, know your market if you want, but above all write with your own brain and guts! If you don't put anything of you in your work, it always shows. And on the contrary, bellow average works in terms of writing skills can be strangely addictive because you can feel that the author is having fun with their story.

The world is big, and the true gems will eventually shine. Arm yourself with knowledge, but do your own stuff: if you fail, you'll have done something for yourself, if you succeed, you'll keep doing something you love. Way better than getting stuck into a successful story that's not truly yours: that's a recipe for burnout.

I also have a question about the Chinese writing scene: are some people writing criticism of the current regime under the guise of fiction as well, Persian Letters style? Or do the authorities catch up with them and clamp it down immediately?

That the thing

It feels like there is diff between writing "what author want" vs "what they readers want"

but guess what. Lately it feels like they succeeded to do a mix of both.

Why, an analogy would be probably "pikachu of ashe".
Did he enjoy picking it ? CLEARLY NO, and even hated it.
But after just 1day, liked him.
Soooooo yeaaaaah, that is a weird analogy but strangely fitting XD hahahahaha

But of course not all are like that.
I think its also because chineses, thx to asian genes, and the fact they don't have copyright problems, readers liking new things,
is that they can write what they want (theme) while still following "what readers want", thx to HIGHLY ACTIVE IMAGINATION (though related to the high libido / a famous psychologist mentioning "libido = imagination")

Biggest example "Awakening of the beginning of the strong identification technique" https://uukanshu.cc/book/17039/
Guess what is first power of MC?
PREGNANCY gaze.
For 10s, enemy experience a fast-forward state of pregnancy.
So it result in shenanigans AND op against enemies (probably best cc in the world after time-stop).
---------------
Another point you made think of

is that, "Is there really no way to fusion both WANT and NEED (readers) ?"

Because when thinking on it, it isn't impossible to do both, because.........well....... in a metaphor way, most "roads" (theme/routines) beside being walked on, is the fact "roads" are still "roads". THAT MEANS the builder can't DEFY logic and creating a road directly in the sky or in space. Just like an author can't just directly go "My name is Aheztru i am an alien from Centaur Star and my aethiteh (slang for lover) is a gze'itgzei from heithzith, today i will cook UITEJTJ an equivalent to chickens".
Of course can't deny there are = wattpadd or fanfics = OR VERY FAMOUS NOTORIOUS NOVEL "INVISIBLE DRAGON" (people theorizing written by a 5years old or a genius that can fake writing like a 5y old and aiming the horrible quality for popularity)
But they are very rare.

Anyway, another thing to consider that also make it easier to understand
"poor people can't be picker".

1) Poor (IRL-purse)
2) Poor (popularity)

2) Because of how 2023 internet is, there is too much entertainment, that means you must do high quality work,
lot of stuff is already done. Onepunch, time travel, time stuck loop, alien in stomach, alien assimilation, rebirth by death, ninja, etc
AND it can be hard to catch the attention of people, as being one novel among probably XXXX great novels, XX games, XX animes ongoing.
1) Welp, money is a great motivation to write
Sadly english writers can't really enjoy this part because both english pop and english internet is different than asian industry that can make it a full time job.

Also, another motto that authors must remember, A VERY VERY old one
"You reap what you sow"
If author wants to write what they want, SURE. But what he should told when he flop is probably this.
Because writting what he wants doesn't automatically means "high quality works that can please lot of people at the same time, to the point of saving it, not forgetting, turning into a favorite of his list of books, and using money to pay for its chapters (asian)".

Not all authors can be like ONEPUNCH author that totally did whatever he wanted and it turn into a giga masterpiece work.

Hm, speaking of him, OPM author can also tell about another previous thing i mentioned
"keeping the innocence-imagination of childhood" and "what readers wants" and "author to be a great author mustnt forget the view of a being reader"
------------
OPM, isn't it clearly a theme of what a readers want ?
By simply the creator wanting to readers AND write, it indeed do the ultimate fusion of "what author wants" and "what readers want".
And why my advice among others of "Author must keep a reader thinking/pov", fit.
Analogy : GAMES DEVS if they don't have a gamer mindset, how the f, can they create a good game ? And why indies are now acclaimed.
"ARCANE" being one of the most successful movie adaptation, and one of the VERY VERY RARE one, is because the studio behind it, was fan of LoL.
Why is the TV SHOW of HALO a gigantic flop ? The director testified they didn't EVEN TRY A HALO GAME (same for actor), they "read lore books", "thought how interesting is the fact the universe of this IP is gigantic that allow lot of things", and well, did a trashy work. An alternate universe where "JOHN" (because fans don't want this guy called MASTERCHIEF) somehow have sex with a covenant HOT WOMAN SPY-HUMANITY-TRAITOR and is a macho man that love SCREAMING LIKE A BERSERKER during fights.
------------
And also "if you want to do a great job, love your job"

Doing "what wants readers" doesnt automatically means "author : gosh i hate doing this"
Authors arent like furry twitter artists (Info : some op artists turn to furry drawing because of TON OF MONEY commissions)
Sure there are some, like the faceslaps series with a discarded husband MC slapping arrogant guys for the annoying waifu, where author clearly is normal mind with the notes he post in chapters, but what they wants is probably money. Hence not unhappy probably of writing it.
------------
And well, let's say that unlike english side,
asian side, have bigger competition but also bigger readers numbers
Because unlike english humans that would reply : i mostly go to club or mostly videogames or mostly ..........
99.99% of any young people or coomer (kid grown up) from china, know about WNs and the numbers that have it as main hobby is gigantic, dozens of millions, compared to probably like a few? millions for english readers ? THAT comboed that they probably prefer reading JP-KR/CH works, with TON OF CHAPTERS, annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd nail on coffin, scribblehub is not totally the main winner vs royalroad vs others.
----------
Returning to what wants readers topic and asian genes.

THING is, the fact its very easy to pick a novel theme of what wants readers.
Beside the genes, is the fact they grew up reading ton of novels, that also upgrade their imagination and SUBCONSCIOUSLY know what can be popular. Just like most humans know that a cake is far easier to be liked than a fucking raw citrus (XD)

Fortune teller
See future
Killer of villains
Doctor
Food
Restaurant
Slice of life
Urban powers
Isekai (WHAT IS FUNNY is that there are lot of high quality isekais in chinese WNs because xianxia is satured but also because japan isekais are turning trash, but chineses write high quality because of competitors, and well, chinese style is novelty to add to isekai (not qi bullshit but very good idea) and its sometimes easier to create stuff by taking inspiration from others and "greener in the other side" hence more attractive)
Judge
Lawyer
Swordsman
Magician
MUSCLED MAGE
Mage with hammer
Mage that punch
Summoner that punch
Archer that use km away
Science in isekai magic
Nanomachines
Time travel rebirth urban
Time travel rebirth xianxia
Time travel rebirth isekai
Time travel to irl chinese empire Tang
Time ----------------------------- Ming
----------------------------------- Xing
Time travel / transmigration / reincarnation to America
Cop in america
Time rebirth Movie director in china
--------------Movie director in america
Gangster in america
Armed soldier
Armed soldier in africa
General in medieval times
Modern weapons in medieval times
------------------- in isekai
------------------- in xianxia
FANFIC
Gwen
Ironman
Naruto
Honkai 3
Honkai star rail
Genshin impact (ton of that)
Pokemon
Digimon
Naruto, being evil naruto
Naruto, exposing truth to parents of naruto
Naruto, being a Uchiha
Naruto, be Sasuke
Naruto, be a random ninja not main cast
Naruto, be Hinata
Naruto, be naruto with ANZEN template (bleach)
Naruto, be kakashi
Naruto be madara
----------- obito
----------- sakura
----------- little brother of Tsunade
----------- Minato
Drawing mangas in naruto world
Global Q/A mysterious power in naruto world
Blind box seller in naruto
----------- be uruchimaru
Be batman
Be ironman
Be a psychologist to IRONMAN and BATMAN
Go to martial multiverse (of chinese novels)
Go to modern world that fusion lot of JP works
LOVE IS WAR modern world (not breaking main couple)
Money making in urban
Become global seller of technology in modern
Become global game seller
Become black tech science fiction in urban
Become russian leader
Become top chinese general
Become top researcher
Become global food seller
Become seller of magic food
Become top chef in world
Become most wanted vigilant of urban, that livestream murder of villains
etcccccccccccccccccc

ALL OF THEM (most)
i can testify have had a masterpiece(s) that had like MILLIONS OF READS, in the past or now
(lazy to link)

CLEARLY what they did, is what they wanted AND what readers wanted
ps : some rivaling the quality of KONOSUBA, but sadly, chinese readers themselves are angry that "capitalists" published crappy faceslap manhuas and not this kind of high quality works. Though lately thx to BILIBILI (2d company more fan oriented) published some of them recently.
-----------
Tired writing, cya