To Contest Or Not To Contest?

[DreamOfRen]

Hello,
I'm Ren, author of a few webfics here on SH.
For a while now I've had an idea for a contest, but I'm not sure if it's a good one. You see its different!

I guess it's best to start by explaining:

First and foremost, it would be a paid contest. This is just my preference, as I think people respond better when they are motivated.
That's not usual, but what I had in mind was to create a "pot".
I was thinking of putting forth 50-100$ as the prize, and charging each entrant 5$.
The 5$ entrant feed would :
Go to future prize pools, as I would probably do this monthly. (3$)
Increase the reward pot of the current contest. (2$)

My main issue with this is-- other people. In my experience, people tend to be very... skeptical of anything that is straight forward. I've found that many people are so hung up on looking for hidden angles that often they dismiss something like this out of pocket. Also I thin ego plays a part for many people. I find folks tend to let their temptation get the best of them when handling any large sum of money, and for that reason they probably also are highly skeptical of anyone else doing so as well.

In other words, this would be a contest that is both funded and participated in largely by the people who decide to participate. The goal is 100% transparency throughout the entire process.

I've dismissed the idea several times, only to have it pop back into my head therefore I feel like it's meant to be done.


There are obviously a lot of other considerations to be done, judging, the scope and subject matter of the contest and things of that nature.
Further more, I'm not even sure how one would go about setting up a forum wide contest.

I'm curious to get the thoughts of other people about this.

 

[IvyVeritas]

I suspect you'll find it difficult to get people to pay for participating in a writing contest.

 

[Saileri]

I suspect you'll find it difficult to get people to pay for participating in a writing contest.

That's true. Even the big contests here on SH garner only like a few active entries and they are usually from the already known authors. If you add an entry fee to it, it will be even more empty. Would be ok for something like short writing prompts contest, but not novel. It requires a lot of time and preparation to write one. Unless you, of course, go raw and just watch whatever happens.

I only entered Metus because it overlapped with me posting my second story. With the amount of time required to just start a new one only for the contest, I'd have never decided on that.

 

[Piisfun]

I only entered Metus because it overlapped with me posting my second story. With the amount of time required to just start a new one only for the contest, I'd have never decided on that.

That right there is probably the single biggest barrier to entry for the contests. Compared to the 40k word requirement, things like not using stolen artwork or sticking to the contest theme amount to almost nothing.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Hello,
I'm Ren, author of a few webfics here on SH.
For a while now I've had an idea for a contest, but I'm not sure if it's a good one. You see its different!

I guess it's best to start by explaining:

First and foremost, it would be a paid contest. This is just my preference, as I think people respond better when they are motivated.
That's not usual, but what I had in mind was to create a "pot".
I was thinking of putting forth 50-100$ as the prize, and charging each entrant 5$.
The 5$ entrant feed would :
Go to future prize pools, as I would probably do this monthly. (3$)
Increase the reward pot of the current contest. (2$)

My main issue with this is-- other people. In my experience, people tend to be very... skeptical of anything that is straight forward. I've found that many people are so hung up on looking for hidden angles that often they dismiss something like this out of pocket. Also I thin ego plays a part for many people. I find folks tend to let their temptation get the best of them when handling any large sum of money, and for that reason they probably also are highly skeptical of anyone else doing so as well.

In other words, this would be a contest that is both funded and participated in largely by the people who decide to participate. The goal is 100% transparency throughout the entire process.

I've dismissed the idea several times, only to have it pop back into my head therefore I feel like it's meant to be done.


There are obviously a lot of other considerations to be done, judging, the scope and subject matter of the contest and things of that nature.
Further more, I'm not even sure how one would go about setting up a forum wide contest.

I'm curious to get the thoughts of other people about this.

go ahead. I could always use more weed money. I'd feel bad for the other entrants tho. Poor sods. I really shouldn't be allowed to even enter writing competitions, but alas... *shrugs helplessly*

 

[Ral]

I suspect you'll find it difficult to get people to pay for participating in a writing contest.

Agree. It is already difficult to make people participate without monetary requirements to impede them.

Not to mention, there is no details about the contest aside from the fact that you had to pay to enter.

And if they just aiming for the money, something like Patreon is a much better option without the limitations.

That right there is probably the single biggest barrier to entry for the contests. Compared to the 40k word requirement, things like not using stolen artwork or sticking to the contest theme amount to almost nothing.

And the fact that the judging is pretty faulty. It usually just ends up becoming the best waifu contest instead of judging for any actual writing or artistic merit. It is like a singing contest where the winners are chosen because they are handsome or have sad backstories and not for their singing talents.

 

[TLCsDestiny]

I've dismissed the idea several times, only to have it pop back into my head therefore I feel like it's meant to be done.

Just because of that sentence, knowing what you mean by experience, I sort of hope it works out in some regard but...It does seem a bit far fetched. Personally, I would not pay to be in a competition. I don't get paid for my stories and to pay to write it...yeah, nah!
But that is just me...

 

[Mercyque]

Sent a PM to the maker of the thread about possible alterations through outside funding. Aka, if they were interested, I'd donate a lump sum.

 

[DreamOfRen]

Thanks for all of the input (I honestly wasn't expecting much).
I want to start off by saying...I figured the response would be a mixed bag. The reason for that is simple, I expect many people simply don't see the benefit in what I'm suggesting.

So here's an example:

Say I create the contest. The format I would use is something along these lines:

1) Entrants would need to craft a story of at least 10,000 words within 1 month time period.
2) These fictions would need to be started on or after the date of the contest announcing the subject matter.
3) 3 Themes or subjects would be given and those who wish to participate would have to craft a story based on them.
4) Pay the fee to enter (which, from what I have read many of you feel is a bit pointless).
5) At the end of the month (4 week contest duration) the fictions are presented and judged by contest criteria.

Where point #4 comes in is actually beneficial to any who choose to enter.

If the total of prizes is 100$, for example amongst the winners, then 3$ from each entrant goes into that pot. Assuming 100 people decided to enter (just a random number, I realize that's not necessarily realistic). The prize pot for the contest is at 400$. The starting pot for the next contest is at, 200$.

So the incentive is actually built into the contest, and it has the added benefit of funding itself from month to month. This, of course, assumes that people see the benefit of such a system which ties into my original post.

I believe that, for the most part, people would either be cynical or hard pressed to even consider this worth their time. But realistically where else would you have a chance to win 5-10x your entry fee based on your own skill?

I suppose my mind works a bit differently because I'm not necessarily ignoring the detriments, it's just that I look at them as problems to be solved rather than obstacles to prevent --if that makes sense?

 

[Mercyque]

Thanks for all of the input (I honestly wasn't expecting much).
I want to start off by saying...I figured the response would be a mixed bag. The reason for that is simple, I expect many people simply don't see the benefit in what I'm suggesting.

(...)

I suppose my mind works a bit differently because I'm not necessarily ignoring the detriments, it's just that I look at them as problems to be solved rather than obstacles to prevent --if that makes sense?

Sent you a message about funding if that's what you're interested in setting up.

 

[DreamOfRen]

Sent you a message about funding if that's what you're interested in setting up.

I noticed it after I replied here, I sent you a message via inbox.

 

[Mercyque]

Thanks. I also sent you details on how much I can spend on supporting your contest at the highest level.

Hope it isn't presumptuous to offer near that much.

 

[DreamOfRen]

I'll be taking input for the next few days while I decide on more concrete rules and a proper format for the contest.

So far, this is what I have in mind:

1. The contest will be held once every 2 months or so. Every month is actually ideal, but I'm not sure how much time and effort it would require to coordinate so bi-monthly seems more ideal.
2. 10,000 word limit (at most, 20,000). This is both for ease of judging and it gives the writer ample time while also providing a challenge.
3. Each entrant and their work will be publicly listed on the official thread for the current contest, both fiction and name.
4. Two Week Writing period. 1- 2 Week Judgement period.
5. Minimum 10 entrant requirement. This is to make sure the contest is worth it. After all it would be a little weird for 1 person to enter, then win (not really a contest is it?).
6. Entrants will be verified as unique by their entry fee. Only a single entry can come from one source, that is to say. This doesn't stop someone from paying twice say using cashapp or paypal--but that also means double the work on their part.
7. The pot will be updated daily, publicly so that those considering entry will see how the current prizes will be distributed.
8. 1st place acquires 50%, 2nd 30% and 3rd 10%. The remaining 10% is equally distributed between the top 5 runners up, or placed into next month's pot if not applicable.
9. Full transparency, as I feel that's really the only way this thing works. With that regard, there should be a ratings system. Something both objective an opinion based. I also believe judges should share their ratings with community readers, not necessarily to influence them but for clarity and perspective.
10. All judge's scores will be averaged (All objective scores summed and avg'ed, All Opinion scores summed and avg'ed) and that will be used as the score for a fiction.
11. Popularity could play a factor in the event of close ratings, by way of a public poll.
12. Odd # of Judges 3 or 5, and Judges will be exempt from entry. I'm leaning towards mystery judges (you'll know if you are one, but other people won't and shouldn't) in order to better keep things a bit more fair.
13. Previous month's winners will be restricted from the next 2 contests or 2 months, whichever comes first. The main reason for this should be apparent, as it would also be strange to have the same person continually win each month, regardless of skill.
14. Payouts are sent via Cashapp or Paypal, whichever is more convenient on the day judging ends and the results are made public.
15. Judges or Community Staff reserve the right to investigate allegations of foul play, and in the event that someone is caught cheating their fee will be returned to them.
16. Entrants have until the end of the 2 week writing period to cancel their entry fee if they desire to do so.

The main reason there are so many rules is that I'd like to provide a fair playing field for entrants, not necessarily to tie anyone's hands. Also...I realize some people act out of character where money is concerned sometimes. I'd like to mitigate as much of that as possible.

 

[DreamOfRen]

In terms of how the contest would run:

• Authors would be given choice of 3-5 topics for a specific contest. They can choose any of them to write about.
• Works can't be published anywhere else, or started until the topics are released.
• To enter, Authors would need to publicly state as much and pay the entry fee. This would most likely be detailed in the contest thread and updated at the OP.
• After the 2 week period, the fictions will be judged, 10,000 word minimum and a maximum of 20,000 words would be read if the fictions exceed that amount.
• Within 7-10 days, possibly sooner depending on # of entrants, judges would perform their duties and make the results known.
• The author(s) who obtains the best rating for their work will be ranked and rewarded accordingly.
  

 

[IvyVeritas]

I think I can say fairly confidently that you're not going to get ten entrants for a contest where authors are expected to write at least 10k words on a topic not of their own choosing *and* they have to pay an entry fee on top of that. Not unless the pot is huge.

Plus, once you start creating all these complex rules, the whole thing's going to collapse under its own weight. The rules are necessary if you intend to collect entry fees, but they just aren't practical.

 

[DreamOfRen]

I think I can say fairly confidently that you're not going to get ten entrants for a contest where authors are expected to write at least 10k words on a topic not of their own choosing *and* they have to pay an entry fee on top of that. Not unless the pot is huge.

Plus, once you start creating all these complex rules, the whole thing's going to collapse under its own weight. The rules are necessary if you intend to collect entry fees, but they just aren't practical.

While that may be true, it's not like I'm twisting anyone's arm to join this. If 10 people aren't interested I just keep my money, so it's not like there's a real down side to this.

The rules are for the judges for the most part so authors won't need to worry about that too much.

As far as whether anyone will join, or how well founded your confidence is -- we'll discover that in due time.

It's not exactly like your type of push back is unexpected. I think where the issue comes from is your perception that you're still "paying" for something. It's literally just another form of crowd funding, the only difference is the entrants are the potential recipients.

I'm not going to try to impress the value of this upon people who fail to understand at a glance, because its not my job or interest to convince anyone to participate. As I said above, I'm not twisting anyone's arm to join this.

My role is to keep the entrants informed of the format and rules. They can choose to participate or not.

But from a personal standpoint, I don't see why you feel no one would enter. I see people enter contests everyday with lesser chances of winning (and absolutely 0 rewards) on other mediums (for example Web Novel).

As far as the # of rules -- they are pretty standard for most competitions where rewards are offered. Half of those rules provide function or guidelines for how the contest is run, while the remainder ensure fairness.

Regardless of what's said, I prefer to allow experience to be my teacher. So I'll probably be going forth with this after I further streamline the concept.

 

[Toomanysorrows]

So here's the thing: why would someone want to enter into this when there's free contests around? The prize is decently big but not necessarily worth it to try cranking out a 10 000 word story in a month that's also of a good enough quality to have a chance at winning, especially if you have a job and social life on top of your writing. And that's about all it seems to have going for it. You mentioned prompts, but at first sight they'll probably be general and vague. As a new contest it's not like you'll bring a lot of exposure. Meanwhile you're essentially asking people to pay for the privilege to enter (I know you said this would more work like crowdfunding, but tbh, to me and I think to a lot of other people this sounds more like a lottery with more work you need to put into it).

This isn't to say that it's a bad idea, that sort of self-sustaining regular contest could potentially really work. But if you want this to work out, you'll have to find something else to differentiate the contest from others out there. Because as it stands I see little reason for people to enter into this instead of a free contest. Maybe focus the first contest on a specific genre or theme? That might get you more focused reader attention than a more general contest, and the chance to write something they like/try their hand at something new and interesting might be a good additional incentive for authors.

 

[DreamOfRen]

So here's the thing: why would someone want to enter into this when there's free contests around? The prize is decently big but not necessarily worth it to try cranking out a 10 000 word story in a month that's also of a good enough quality to have a chance at winning, especially if you have a job and social life on top of your writing. And that's about all it seems to have going for it. You mentioned prompts, but at first sight they'll probably be general and vague. As a new contest it's not like you'll bring a lot of exposure. Meanwhile you're essentially asking people to pay for the privilege to enter (I know you said this would more work like crowdfunding, but tbh, to me and I think to a lot of other people this sounds more like a lottery with more work you need to put into it).

This isn't to say that it's a bad idea, that sort of self-sustaining regular contest could potentially really work. But if you want this to work out, you'll have to find something else to differentiate the contest from others out there. Because as it stands I see little reason for people to enter into this instead of a free contest. Maybe focus the first contest on a specific genre or theme? That might get you more focused reader attention than a more general contest, and the chance to write something they like/try their hand at something new and interesting might be a good additional incentive for authors.

I write 10,000 words in two days. That's pretty simple to me. Perhaps I'm a bit of an oddity, but I also know many authors that write upwards of 30,000 words in a 2 week time period.

10,000 is light weight.


None of the other points you mentioned really do anything to sway my opinion on the matter. It's not that I'm unrealistic, I just think maybe you and I have two completely different perspectives on the issue at hand.

If one of your prevalent reasons for thinking this is unreasonable is that you think the word count is excessive, I don't really see that being a problem.

What I am noticing is that this particular community may not be the right one.

I'll probably set something up independently and draw eyes to it.

 

[Toomanysorrows]

Maybe my opinion on the word count is a bit skewed, as I'm not the kind of person who writes every day (or every week for that matter). That said, it's not one of my prevailing reasons for thinking this is unreasonable. In fact I don't think this is unreasonable at all really! Just that if you want people to participate in this, you'll probably have to make sure the contest sets itself apart from other contests by more than just this crowdfunding/prize model.

That said good luck if you're trying this out somewhere else.

 

[Mercyque]

1) I would recommend 3-4 weeks for 10k words. As it prevents people from making rushed works.

2) It's better to just offer one good contest than several less fitting ones, especially with the entrance fee.

3) Quality over quantity of words, remember that point. Most people prefer to write beyond par than write a lot.

@DreamOfRen