The True Depth of a Novel

Mr.Grey-Cat

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so is it true? I mean for you who write, and you who read, what do you think? is your novel the same depth as you imagined before writing? is the novel in your head the same depth as the one you read? and can an author really write a novel close to what he imagined it, or do authosr always look at their novel through some weird dense lenses?
 

KoyukiMegumi

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:blob_popcorn: I feel like I imagine something, and it somehow always turns out differently once I write it. And after a few passes, I find I perfect it and it is better than what I first imagined.

And when I read, I just read. I don't think about depth or anything like that. I just enjoy what the author puts out. Nothing else. Unless... I ship something. Then I want that to sail or the world can burn.:blobspearpeek:
 

Representing_Tromba

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My main story went way farther than I initially thought. I was planning a kind of one-shot novel between 200 and 300 words but instead, it became a 1200 page epic with way more lore, characters, and world-building than I originally planned. I even have plans for a sequel now and my desire to write said sequel is making it hard to write my other story.
 
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Viator

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I think it depends on what you set out to do when writing. If your aim is to write a nice Isekai. Your story likely won't be that deep. If your goal is to explore the metaphysical ramifications of a banana... It probably won't be that deep either. But the point is, whatever concept you decide to explore with your voice as an author; if you write about a concept important to you, it can be rather deep.
 

Jemini

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From my experience, I would say the idea you posted up there is incredibly simplified to the point of being inaccurate.

There are actually several layers deeper than the author's vision in reality. A simple example would by the environmentalist themes that J.R.R. Tolkien accidentally allowed to bleed into The Two Towers. (2nd book in The Lord of the Rings trilogy.) Tolkien was, indeed, deeply sympathetic to environmental causes. However, he had absolutely no intention to include such themes in his writing. They just kind of leeched their way into it on a subconscious level, and without him even noticing. He was so unaware that he had included such themes in his book that he actively denied it for some time whenever asked about it, and it was only after someone laid it out for him that he finally admitted that somehow he really had unintentionally included such a thing in his writing.

Another layer even deeper than the author is the implications that can be drawn from the inclusion of thematic archetypes and axioms. These things are POWERFUL, and if they are used correctly by the author they will almost universally improve the impact of the story and how well it resonates with the reader. The thing about these axioms though is that they also come with a lot of baggage and deeper meaning to them, and only the most expert of writers have an actual full understanding of what comes with that axiom.

Here's the thing about axioms and archetypes though. As soon as the author includes one or more in their story, the mere act of attempting to use it correctly will change their writing and the archetype will start writing the story more than the author does. The nature of these things is such that the author's attempts to deliberately resist what the archetype or axiom is doing to their story will actually tank the story's quality and alienate readers.

These heavy and powerful concepts have a deep resonance through the cultural subconscious, and they really do have to be handled a certain way. And, that certain way they need to be handled will insert deeper meaning into the writing that, once again, the author will likely not even be aware of. This isn't even the level of Tolkien's accidental environmentalism anymore. Tolkien was actually an environmentalist. If your writing is being influenced by an archetype or axiom you have included though, then you as the author likely do not even have the slightest clue or attachment to any of the themes that are now winding up in your story. A better informed reader really can, in this case, dig down to far deeper layers in the writing than even the author is aware exists.
 

ElijahRyne

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There are things that I know are happening in the chapter, that the reader probably doesn’t. So it is somewhat correct.
 

Cipiteca396

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a 1200 word epic
Did you mean page?



I feel like a novel is more of an infinite chain than an iceberg. The author writes it, the reader reads it and draws their own conclusions, and if those conclusions are shared the author may be influenced by them. Each link in the chain is made of either intentions or insights...

Well, it doesn't need to be all that philosophical. It could be as simple as 'Oh, the character likes ice cream because it was the first thing they ate together with the person they like. That makes sense.'
 

Mr.Grey-Cat

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Well, it doesn't need to be all that philosophical. It could be as simple as 'Oh, the character likes ice cream because it was the first thing they ate together with the person they like. That makes sense.'

It's true. sometimes a good novel does not need a great story nor an epic battle, but just a few characters that you can share their feeling, while also enjoying reading about them.
 

greyblob

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You can glean profound and deep meaning from the dumbest shit. However, trying to convey a certain idea, belief, or meaning is entirely reliant on your skills and experiences both as an author and a person.

It could be as simple as 'Oh, the character likes ice cream because it was the first thing they ate together with the person they like. That makes sense.'
Oh, the MC was transported to another world, and now he's collecting a female of every race to add to his harem. That makes sense.
 
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