The killing/ going after your next-of-kin trope

[NotaNuffian]

Balor in Supreme Magus got it, most CN Xianxia MCs got it. It is basically the fastest way to orphanize the MC and turning him into a loner with no baggage and a motive to kill. It is the main way of making a coldblooded MC, which the author can play with by having him regaining human emotions once more, only to rip the rugs from underneath him.

Reincarnation of the Worthless Man fucked it up for me. Killing Kaito Asano by a freak accident is what made me dropped the book once more (though what put the final nail in was SophiaxHumphrey, first Amy, then Cassandra and now Sophia... granted Sophia never truly go steady with Jason and that she thought Jason was dead... but still it felt like the final scene in Erased all over again). Zac's father getting murdered by corrupt local government is also one. Though all these cases can be chalked up into unintentional seeking and slaying of MC's kins and not so much evil as its counterpart.

I would like to talk about the true evil of actively seeking out the next of kin.

It can be for blackmail, it can be for revenge, but we all know that whoever that does it will leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth except the perpetrators. I have mostly seen the antagonists do it, I had seen the MC and his gang performed the deed. It boils down to people going after the innocent* loved ones of their target for notorious things with innocent being questionable as the relatives have or have no info about the job that the target is doing or who the target had antagonised. Case and point, in a modern themed xuanhua story, MC got turned into a monster and wreaked havoc on the goons sent by the corrupt mayor's son and fled their pursue. What do the goons do to try and attract his attention? Find MC's next of kin; his uncle and auntie, and torture them to death for the deaths of their brothers. The auntie got raped to death and fed to the dogs while the uncle got one leg amputated, eyes gouged out and digits of his fingers missing by pliers. Though to be fair, I don't pity the couple as they are the equivalent of Vandalieu's previous life relatives (shitheads, sadly IRL they exist) but seeing what the gangsters did further cements how evil they are.

For context, evil in this case is knowing what you do is bad but still proceeding. Going after family members is a special type of horror for me not because of breaking some retarded unspoken rule that may or may not exist, but rather how misguided and cowardly it is. The person seek gratification through harming those that you care of is a type of pathetic evil in my eyes. You either don't dare to go after the target or too stupid to even try and locate where he is.

What do you think?

 

[T.K._Paradox]

It is dogshit in most situations because then the story often turns into a revenge wankfest.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

Someone likes that type of story, but not me.

 

[SakeVision]

it's not evil, it's logical

you think it's evil cause it's done by bad guys. But imagine if the good guys did it, for example, to force a villain out of hiding, when millions of lives would perish if the villain wasn't stopped?

the villains who do it are usually evil and cruel, but imagine, what if good guys did it and were actually conflicted about it, but felt like they have no choice considering what's at stake?

 

[Echimera]

it's not evil, it's logical

you think it's evil cause it's done by bad guys. But imagine if the good guys did it, for example, to force a villain out of hiding, when millions of lives would perish if the villain wasn't stopped?

the villains who do it are usually evil and cruel, but imagine, what if good guys did it and were actually conflicted about it, but felt like they have no choice considering what's at stake?

If the good guys have to actively seek out the next of kin of the bad guy, said next of kin are usually not involved in the conflict at hand and are potentially completely innocent, and bringing innocents people into danger isn't very heroic even if it may be utilitarian. Depending on the context, I'd go as far as calling it evil
That leaves the good guys as anti-heroes at best though, so it doesn't fit every story, setting or character.
That's why stories that have Superman go to such lengths usually are alternate universes, for example. Just remember the outrage at the ending of Man of Steel.

To classify characters, both the motivation (why) and the methods (how) have to be taken into account.

 

[NotaNuffian]

it's not evil, it's logical

you think it's evil cause it's done by bad guys. But imagine if the good guys did it, for example, to force a villain out of hiding, when millions of lives would perish if the villain wasn't stopped?

the villains who do it are usually evil and cruel, but imagine, what if good guys did it and were actually conflicted about it, but felt like they have no choice considering what's at stake?

*Raise hand*

It is still evil to me though. No matter how much you wash your hands and say "I don't want to" and "I did not hurt them", you are still commiting the act of going after next of kin.

Oftentimes when I read this thing, where the MC goes after their opposition's family, the authors will try to BS me with the above lines or just straight up go Summoning the Holy Sword route with the MC saying "I am a piece of shit" before maiming the family member and sending the fingers to the opposition. Fyi he even mentally torture the family member, a ten yo boy, to insanity by cutting off his fingers and toes before dumping the unconscious body back to the opposition (who was threatening him earlier).

To me, these actions try to dilute the act with an eye for an eye and it is often ridiculous to still see the MC as heroic. To me, that is when the reality of that written world is shown and marking MC just as hypocritical as the rest of the villains. The only redemption for the MC at this point (to me at least) is for him to acknowledge it and either go two ways; full dark or wash until white.

 

[Irl_Rat]

If it works for the vast majority of dictatorships, then it must have some value as a tactic.

 

[LordJoyde]

I'm not sure if I can give an unbiased opinion. There should be nothing wrong with the concept in of itself, but its been done so many times already that I personally find it abhorrently boring, cheap and just character filler. But filling your characters up with water makes them very little other than easily-popped balloons of objective disbelief.

 

[Reborn_Cat]

There was this superhero comic on webtoon in which the villians made a pact to never touch a heros family cause heros always got a powerup if someone hurt their loved ones

 

[NotaNuffian]

There was this superhero comic on webtoon in which the villians made a pact to never touch a heros family cause heros always got a powerup if someone hurt their loved ones

Lol

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Balor in Supreme Magus got it, most CN Xianxia MCs got it. It is basically the fastest way to orphanize the MC and turning him into a loner with no baggage and a motive to kill. It is the main way of making a coldblooded MC, which the author can play with by having him regaining human emotions once more, only to rip the rugs from underneath him.

Reincarnation of the Worthless Man fucked it up for me. Killing Kaito Asano by a freak accident is what made me dropped the book once more (though what put the final nail in was SophiaxHumphrey, first Amy, then Cassandra and now Sophia... granted Sophia never truly go steady with Jason and that she thought Jason was dead... but still it felt like the final scene in Erased all over again). Zac's father getting murdered by corrupt local government is also one. Though all these cases can be chalked up into unintentional seeking and slaying of MC's kins and not so much evil as its counterpart.

I would like to talk about the true evil of actively seeking out the next of kin.

It can be for blackmail, it can be for revenge, but we all know that whoever that does it will leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth except the perpetrators. I have mostly seen the antagonists do it, I had seen the MC and his gang performed the deed. It boils down to people going after the innocent* loved ones of their target for notorious things with innocent being questionable as the relatives have or have no info about the job that the target is doing or who the target had antagonised. Case and point, in a modern themed xuanhua story, MC got turned into a monster and wreaked havoc on the goons sent by the corrupt mayor's son and fled their pursue. What do the goons do to try and attract his attention? Find MC's next of kin; his uncle and auntie, and torture them to death for the deaths of their brothers. The auntie got raped to death and fed to the dogs while the uncle got one leg amputated, eyes gouged out and digits of his fingers missing by pliers. Though to be fair, I don't pity the couple as they are the equivalent of Vandalieu's previous life relatives (shitheads, sadly IRL they exist) but seeing what the gangsters did further cements how evil they are.

For context, evil in this case is knowing what you do is bad but still proceeding. Going after family members is a special type of horror for me not because of breaking some retarded unspoken rule that may or may not exist, but rather how misguided and cowardly it is. The person seek gratification through harming those that you care of is a type of pathetic evil in my eyes. You either don't dare to go after the target or too stupid to even try and locate where he is.

What do you think?

Revenge stories dont work until you have an emotional connection.

Stories that dont build up the revenge aspect and just use that as a backstory are bound to be trash. You cant show me the family or friends for like one scene or chapter and expect me to care when things happen to them.

Go rape Nami, go kill off Genos. Characters I've known since day one and have come to love. THATS how you get me to care. Not killing off a character I've known all of one scene or chapter.

Also, flashbacks are shit. No matter how good they are, they are just flashbacks...i already know not to get invested in the character cuz they are likely already dead. Revenge stories use those to try and build that connection, but its useless.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

It can be effective, and if you wanna hurt someone badly with almost no cost to yourself - that's the basic thing to do! Ahem, I mean in novels, yes. Only in novels... Where was I?

It boils down to people going after the innocent* loved ones of their target for notorious things with innocent being questionable as the relatives have or have no info about the job that the target is doing or who the target had antagonised.

Oh, my protagonist in one series did this: kidnapping favourite children of a powerful noble to push an agenda through in the court. That was a fun thing to write.

For context, evil in this case is knowing what you do is bad but still proceeding. Going after family members is a special type of horror for me not because of breaking some retarded unspoken rule that may or may not exist, but rather how misguided and cowardly it is.

I mean, if your characters are all moral and aren't cowardly and care about being good and stuff, that makes a story more interesting, no?

 

[Zirrboy]

The only thing that would bother me about something like that is if the one doing it is supposed to be morally justified.

Make them walk in on ground beef from their children for all I care, so long as it serves a goal