The Eyes!

[TheEldritchGod]

Okay. So I've been giving some thought about N-dimensional beings. Specifically angels. Now, assuming angels are 4th dimensional and gods are 5th, I was trying to figure out how many eyes an angel would need to have 3d stereo vision.

We have 2d stereo vision. The back of our eyes is a 2d surface, and we combine 2 eyes to make stereoscopic vision. We cannot see in 3d. We only see the surface of things then create the illusion of depth.

So how many eyes would you need to be a 4d creature who could see in 3d?

I believe the minimum would be 4.

This brought me to the thought that because eyes would be able to see through hyper-flesh, the eyes could be anywhere "inside" the creature. I think maybe it might even have some normal 2d eyes for greater depth perception. In the case of a 4d predator, you could have 2 4d eyes and 2 3d eyes, but a 4d prey animal would be best served with 4 4d eyes.

Now my question is, perhaps when you have a hierarchy of angels, the number, type, and configuration of eyes would be an indicator of power level. Like you would have the base 4 for your grunt level angels. They would be in a tetrahedron shape, because it could be focused better.

6 eyes in a more powerful, but observational role because it would be in 3 axis pairs which would give you superor all around vision, but ill fitting a predator.

8 eyes could be in tandem tetrahedrons for maximum directional focus and superior hyper-dimentional depth perception, but at the cost of having a blind spot, in the 4th dimension of course.

And finally we'd have the 10 eyed angel whose eyes would be arranged in a pentagonal prism. I figure these would be your "throne class" angel.

Then additional pairs of normal 3d eyes could be 'sub ranks' of angels.

Like an angel with 6 4d eyes and 6 3d eyes would out rank an angel with 6 4d eyes and only 2 3d eyes. But a 10 4d eyed angel would out rank both of the previous examples.

I did a lot of theoretical physics back in the day, so why I cannot describe the configurations well, I can "see" how 4-dimentional eyes can work in my mind quite easily. So trust me on the math.

I need your opinion on how this sounds as an aspect of angel society.

Also, do you have any other quirks of angel hierarchy you might think to suggest? Any suggestion welcome.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Okay. So I've been giving some thought about N-dimensional beings. Specifically angels. Now, assuming angels are 4th dimensional and gods are 5th, I was trying to figure out how many eyes an angel would need to have 3d stereo vision.

We have 2d stereo vision. The back of our eyes is a 2d surface, and we combine 2 eyes to make stereoscopic vision. We cannot see in 3d. We only see the surface of things then create the illusion of depth.

So how many eyes would you need to be a 4d creature who could see in 3d?

I believe the minimum would be 4.

This brought me to the thought that because eyes would be able to see through hyper-flesh, the eyes could be anywhere "inside" the creature. I think maybe it might even have some normal 2d eyes for greater depth perception. In the case of a 4d predator, you could have 2 4d eyes and 2 3d eyes, but a 4d prey animal would be best served with 4 4d eyes.

Now my question is, perhaps when you have a hierarchy of angels, the number, type, and configuration of eyes would be an indicator of power level. Like you would have the base 4 for your grunt level angels. They would be in a tetrahedron shape, because it could be focused better.

6 eyes in a more powerful, but observational role because it would be in 3 axis pairs which would give you superor all around vision, but ill fitting a predator.

8 eyes could be in tandem tetrahedrons for maximum directional focus and superior hyper-dimentional depth perception, but at the cost of having a blind spot, in the 4th dimension of course.

And finally we'd have the 10 eyed angel whose eyes would be arranged in a pentagonal prism. I figure these would be your "throne class" angel.

Then additional pairs of normal 3d eyes could be 'sub ranks' of angels.

Like an angel with 6 4d eyes and 6 3d eyes would out rank an angel with 6 4d eyes and only 2 3d eyes. But a 10 4d eyed angel would out rank both of the previous examples.

I did a lot of theoretical physics back in the day, so why I cannot describe the configurations well, I can "see" how 4-dimentional eyes can work in my mind quite easily. So trust me on the math.

I need your opinion on how this sounds as an aspect of angel society.

Also, do you have any other quirks of angel hierarchy you might think to suggest? Any suggestion welcome.

Nah man im pretty sure it wouldnt matter how many eyes you have, plenty of animals perceive the world differently even with just two eyes. Adding more isn't really necessary? Might just want to just study the biology of certain animal's eyes to get a better idea.

Its more about the quality of the equipment than the number of them.

Our physical world is three dimensional, all that would change is our perception of the world if we could see more dimensions

Brian Greene explained it like this: from afar a wire looks like a one dimensional line. But studying it up close, we discover the cord is actually round, making it three dimensional"

In any case, its not as if dimensions are planes of existence anyway. People use the whole "2d beings can never interact with a 3 dimensional being" and thats fucking dumb because dimensions arent places or parallel universes or even spaces you can put shit in. They are just characteristics used to describe our universe

Just because you can only see in 2d, doesnt mean the 3d doesnt exist. You just cant perceive it.

A good analogy might be a frog at the bottom of a well. Ya only see a tiny little area but a whole world still exists outside of that.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Nah man im pretty sure it wouldnt matter how many eyes you have, plenty of animals perceive the world differently even with just two eyes. Adding more isn't really necessary? Might just want to just study the biology of certain animal's eyes to get a better idea.

Its more about the quality of the equipment than the number of them.

Our physical world is three dimensional, all that would change is our perception of the world if we could see more dimensions

Brian Greene explained it like this: from afar a wire looks like a one dimensional line. But studying it up close, we discover the cord is actually round, making it three dimensional"

In any case, its not as if dimensions are planes of existence anyway. People use the whole "2d beings can never interact with a 3 dimensional being" and thats fucking dumb because dimensions arent places or parallel universes or even spaces you can put shit in. They are just characteristics used to describe our universe

Just because you can only see in 2d, doesnt mean the 3d doesnt exist. You just cant perceive it.

A good analogy might be a frog at the bottom of a well. Ya only see a tiny little area but a whole world still exists outside of that.

This setting had six dimensions. Furthermore, how would that help a 4-dimensional creature see other 4-dimensional creatures. You are not considering how it would appear in its natural environment.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Nah man im pretty sure it wouldnt matter how many eyes you have, plenty of animals perceive the world differently even with just two eyes. Adding more isn't really necessary? Might just want to just study the biology of certain animal's eyes to get a better idea.

Its more about the quality of the equipment than the number of them.

Our physical world is three dimensional, all that would change is our perception of the world if we could see more dimensions

Brian Greene explained it like this: from afar a wire looks like a one dimensional line. But studying it up close, we discover the cord is actually round, making it three dimensional"

In any case, its not as if dimensions are planes of existence anyway. People use the whole "2d beings can never interact with a 3 dimensional being" and thats fucking dumb because dimensions arent places or parallel universes or even spaces you can put shit in. They are just characteristics used to describe our universe

Just because you can only see in 2d, doesnt mean the 3d doesnt exist. You just cant perceive it.

A good analogy might be a frog at the bottom of a well. Ya only see a tiny little area but a whole world still exists outside of that.

While I was reading, I felt that it was reasonable, but then I saw who wrote it and began scanning it for sexual innuendoes and references to weed. You're realy growing old, man

 

[CupcakeNinja]

This setting had six dimensions. Furthermore, how would that help a 4-dimensional creature see other 4-dimensional creatures. You are not considering how it would appear in its natural environment.

Which six? I read a lotta shit but i aint exactly a scientist so I'd appreciate a clarification on that. Anyway, we live in the same environment, dude. The universe. Whether was can perceive it or not. Its like tryna guess what aliens would look like. Now, we can theorize based on the the conditions of fheir habitat, as with any living being, but im not ascribed to the idea beings like those would have "eyes" at all.

We are physical beings ourselves, and even animals who can perceive more dimensions cant see them all. They're usually specialized.

As such, I'd be more inclined to believe they'd be energy-based entities and could simply "sense" their surroundings. This would still make them "physical" beings in so far as they are a deeper part the natural forces of our universe than us, but also allow them to perceive a wider spectrum of these forces as they wouldn't rely on biological vision, which would just limit them.

The concept of angels is basically that, right? Its up to you to decide the appearance they'd take if we COULD see them. And why. Would we go insane at looking at something our brains simply arent capable of understanding? Or would we unconsciously turn them into a shape we CAN recognize even though thats not their true forms?

Our eyes and brain already do that. They're faulty, so they "fill in" details. Those details may just end up looking monstrous.

And yes i know there are theories and studies thinking 2d beings exist. But even atoms have are 3 dimensional. So even if you exist in a 2d space, you'd still have some kind of mass. You simply wont be aware of it.

While I was reading, I felt that it was reasonable, but then I saw who wrote it and began scanning it for sexual innuendoes and references to weed. You're realy growing old, man

Im more than a pervert, kid. I actually used to be quite a serious and helpful man. Deep, thoughtful. Erudite. Then i discovered weed and the pleasures of tentacle rape hentai. Fucking Inyouchuu, bro....it changes you....turns you into something...lesser.

 

[Erysion]

Compound eyes.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Which six?

Uh, six directions. Techically there are 7, but one dimension is the backdrop the other 6 are projected on.

And i really dont have much troubls thinking in higher dimensions. You just got to picture it as a series of transparent cross sections.

When i say dimension i mean direction. Furthermore if you accept planck tetrahedron quantum gravity theory, then a singularity is the event horizon. Therefore, a 3d black hole is basically a seperate universe that exists in 2d. 2d life on the skin of a singularity would not be affected by matter a d energy falling into it, but... it would notice that the universe seemed to be expanding. And it is possible for light and other forces to work just fine in such an enviroment, but just exist in 2d.

So earth would be in a hyper singularity. Which includes a whole slew of possibilites for narrative purposes.

This requires me to consider 4d lifw forms on this frame work. Now there is no reason to assume bosons dont exist, so if photons exist, then sensory organs would evolve.

So we must ask ourselves, why do we have two eyes?

So we can see in stereo. Depth perception.

But why not more? Because more becomes increasingly complicated for no additional benefit.

Now a 4d being would have a 3d surface. We can assume thar grouping sensory organs by the brain is common, because it would reduce lag and speed kills.

But what is the mininum number of eyes you would need to determine depth in 4 dimensions? I'll save you pages of technical jargon. It would be four and the simplest configuration would be in a tetrahedron.

Your face is, simplified for calculation purposes, 2d. You need eyes in a 2d plane to determine depth in the third dimension. So just the face of a 4d creature would be 3d. Eyes would have to be arranged in a 3d structure. From our point of view, chances are at least one eye would be inside the face, but it can see through its own skin, from our perspective.

But thats besides the point. I am using this as a spring board to conceptualize an alien mindset to help developed the culture of such creatures.

Im more looking for feedback if the concept is interestimg and if it has legs. I'm staging an entire cosmic war so I ain't half assing this. Dont tou worry what they look like, contemplate the idea if creatures that ar ed basically pure thought would create a hierarchy based on the ability to absorb data fron the universe.

If thought is life, then information is actual power. The very act of observing things would feed said creature.

It eats with its eyes.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

If thought is life, then information is actual power. The very act of observing things would feed said creature.

It eats with its eyes.

im certain i've come across these kind of concepts before. It's an interesting idea but im not sure what "power" refers to here. I mean, in fiction 4th D beings are nearly god-like already compared to lower D beings simply because lower beings cant really interact with them on their own, the higher one usually has to lower themselves to their dimension.

They got more angles than us, too. They could be epically larger than us. And become exponentially larger the higher you go. Who was the one DC character from like the 5th dimension? Mr.Mxyzptlk? Dude was able to control the very fabric of our universe. Dunno how, i don't see how being a higher D being would allow that kind of ability. Sure, you may be able to teleport or become incomporeal to 3D beings, but matter manipulation....i dunno

 

[LilRora]

I think the idea itself is good. Putting aside if it's scientifically correct or logical, because I think we can let it slide in this case, I'd say a hierarchy built on number of eyes is a neat idea. The number of eyes could be related to the amount of information they obtain and their mental capabilities to process all of it, so the higher angels would be not unlike elders or sages - beings with wisdom and knowledge surpassing the other angels.

It's just that, since they live in higher dimensions, I won't even be trying to guess what that knowledge is supposed to be.

Honestly, if you ask me, just don't try to explain to readers the technical details of living in four dimensions and you're good with what you have here. 4th dimension is supposed to be something incomprehensible (to any random person, that is), and it would be fine if you just left it at that.

You just got to picture it as a series of transparent cross sections.

Also about this, you mean that just like a 3d sphere is a series of circles, a 4d sphere would be a series of 3d spheres? There would be an infinite number of them.

That comparison is really helpful, but I think it's a bit too simplified. For example, a 4d being would have a 4d eyeball, so if we looked at it, we wouldn't see an eye inside of its head, but we would the inside of the eye, which from our perspective wouldn't be an eye at all, but some irrecognizable mass of eye matter and probably other things. A 4d being fundamentally cannot interact with 3d matter (just like we cannot interact with the 2d universe on the event horizon, even if we can theorize its existence), and as such it's not possible to have an angel with both 4d and 3d eyes.

I'm not saying I'm an expert on that, because I'm not, but the way you've been describing it makes me think that you're not talking about 4-dimensional beings, but beings consisting of innumerable 3d layers, which is much different. The main thing is that the layers are fixed to the plane and not possible to rotate or move "up" and "down". I'm not saying you're wrong on something, just think about it, 'kay?

Imma go to sleep now, I'll check this thread tomorrow.

 

[NitroxDarks]

Isn't one's dimension pertaining on oneself and not on others? For seeing other supposedly existing beings of higher levels, it would be a matter of plane and not eyes. Eyes are just eyes, a cat's or dog's eyes are infinitely different to a human's and they are extremely better at something but bad at other few things.

A one-dimensional being cannot be touched nor can it be felt of its presence in any way and can only work in one 'way'; they may not even have eyes, nor life to speak of.

Eyes only matter this much in naruto-fantastical worlds with eye powers.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

OMG, what does this say about spiders?

 

[Ai-chan]

Okay. So I've been giving some thought about N-dimensional beings. Specifically angels. Now, assuming angels are 4th dimensional and gods are 5th, I was trying to figure out how many eyes an angel would need to have 3d stereo vision.

We have 2d stereo vision. The back of our eyes is a 2d surface, and we combine 2 eyes to make stereoscopic vision. We cannot see in 3d. We only see the surface of things then create the illusion of depth.

So how many eyes would you need to be a 4d creature who could see in 3d?

I believe the minimum would be 4.

This brought me to the thought that because eyes would be able to see through hyper-flesh, the eyes could be anywhere "inside" the creature. I think maybe it might even have some normal 2d eyes for greater depth perception. In the case of a 4d predator, you could have 2 4d eyes and 2 3d eyes, but a 4d prey animal would be best served with 4 4d eyes.

Now my question is, perhaps when you have a hierarchy of angels, the number, type, and configuration of eyes would be an indicator of power level. Like you would have the base 4 for your grunt level angels. They would be in a tetrahedron shape, because it could be focused better.

6 eyes in a more powerful, but observational role because it would be in 3 axis pairs which would give you superor all around vision, but ill fitting a predator.

8 eyes could be in tandem tetrahedrons for maximum directional focus and superior hyper-dimentional depth perception, but at the cost of having a blind spot, in the 4th dimension of course.

And finally we'd have the 10 eyed angel whose eyes would be arranged in a pentagonal prism. I figure these would be your "throne class" angel.

Then additional pairs of normal 3d eyes could be 'sub ranks' of angels.

Like an angel with 6 4d eyes and 6 3d eyes would out rank an angel with 6 4d eyes and only 2 3d eyes. But a 10 4d eyed angel would out rank both of the previous examples.

I did a lot of theoretical physics back in the day, so why I cannot describe the configurations well, I can "see" how 4-dimentional eyes can work in my mind quite easily. So trust me on the math.

I need your opinion on how this sounds as an aspect of angel society.

Also, do you have any other quirks of angel hierarchy you might think to suggest? Any suggestion welcome.

That's not what 4D is about, it has nothing to do with super-stereo. 3D is about the 3 axis. 4D is about the 4th axis, and it is not dependent on how many eyes you have. The tessaract you often see in scifi has nothing to do with the space inside a cube (which is still 3D), but about the visual representation of the w axis.

1D is a line
2D is a shape
3D is a depth
4D is something else. In physics, it's space-time. In psychology, it's the person's wellbeing and emotions. In Ichika, it's his density that rivals a black hole.

So for an angel to be able to see in the 4D, they do not need eyes, but an additional organ capable of perceiving extra qualities. Maybe the angel would have an organ capable of perceiving the person's 'fate' or 'future'. Maybe the angel would have a specialized 'eyes' that allow the angel to perceive the 'paths' the person would take in his life. Maybe the angel would have a hand capable of interfering in the person's fate. Maybe the angel could inject or influence the person's thoughts.

When you portray an angel as a humanoid being, it's hard to portray it as something fantastical. That's why ancient jews didn't bother. They had angels that look like numerous rotating wheels with eyes all over the wheels. They have angels that was nothing more than a cloud that permanently burns. And they have angels that look like black ropes dripping disgusting black ichor that hang upside-down ominously from the sky teaching humans evil magic.

EDIT: That being said, it's fine if you do want to make angels that have multiple eyes. But that would just make them have multi-angle visions. Nothing's wrong with that. Evangelion also made angels that are humanoid.

 

[georgelee5786]

OMG, what does this say about spiders?

That they have amazing eyesight, but are still satan-incarnate