Storyidea: A Sci-Fi slice of life romance lit rpg.

[Sergeandgreen]

Hello guys,

Instead of writing my main story i wrote like 10k words of a new story i got the idea for while shopping for grocceries.


So the idea is that you have a world, like earth that got a system in ancient times. Lets say 2000 BC. The system has a stat called vitality, which besides recovery slows down aging a lot. So people become basically immortal. Now the gist is that 20.000 years have passed since the integration of the system. People basically only die if they stop leveling their classes or because of some unlucky mishaps. The world and half the galaxy is ruled by an intergalactical version of the roman empire where an emperor can rule for thousand years.

Now the main character is the daughter of the Emperor. Quite young by this worlds standards. So only 22 years old. (People get the first basic class after turning 20). But the emperor is in a difficult political situation and fears that after his wife got assassinated, his children are next. So he sends his daughter to a friend in a "backward" village to learn under him. (The village is still thousands of years ahead of our time). But the emperor doesn't want anyone to know that his daughter is there so she naturally goes undercover. Not using her title and stuff like that.

This teacher of her is old. Almost as old as the system itself. And for all this time, he kept the villager job. The villager job gives only +1 in every stat including HP, MP, and SP (meaning you get 11 stats per level). The class is also limited to mostly passive skills, with the only exception being "identify". After reaching level 100, you can if you want to advance your class. You retain all previous skills and stat points and even the most basic class gives around a hundred points. The problem is that while you can advance the other class further, you are locked onto a path. Meaning a blacksmith can become a weapon smith or mana engineer or something like that but not a hunter or bard. Also, the classes are twice as hard to level (with 10 times the stats, its still worth it). There is no level cap for any class. Villager is the starting class for everyone.
So after all those years, despite having a villager class, the teacher is quite powerful, even though there are quite a lot of people who are far stronger than him. But he enjoys his easy life in the village. Gaining levels with simple quests like helping the neighbour, doing volunteer work, etc. He has done the same routine for thousands of years, leveling and hoping that one day a class to revive people from thousands of years ago will become known and available to him. Now this Princess ruines his routine and challenges his world view every other day, while sometimes assassins try to kill her. During the stories, the two develop feelings for each other.

Do you guys think that could become a worthwhile story?

Here is an example of a status page. Quests always grant a level of progress in percentages, and there are always a few quests available. For villagers those are fairly easy. The villager class has 8 active skill slots and starts with passive skill slots. Every magnitude in levels, the class gains two additional inactive skill slots. Inactive skill slots are as the name says, inactive skills. They don't affect the person or level while inactive. But they can be switched with the active skills with just a few minutes of concentration. Passive skills usually give stat boosts during a specific activity. Writing, for example, increases the dexterity while writing. Skills can fuse under specific conditions.

Spoiler

Status​
Name:​	Julia Marcellus​	Sex:​	Female​
Age:​	22​	Class:​	Villager​
Species:​	Human​	Class Level:​	84​
Race:​	Caucasian​	Exp:​	1%​
Equiped Title(s):​	Fourth Princess of the Roman Empire​
Unequiped Title(s):​	The Emperor’s Favored Daughter​
Health Points (HP):​	184/184​	HP Recovery:​	1,84/h​
Mana Points (MP):​	184/184​	MP Recovery:​	1,84/min​
Stamina Points (SP):​	175/184​	SP Recovery:​	3,68/min​
Stats​
Strength:​	184​	Endurance:​	184​
Agility:​	184​	Intelligence:​	184​
Dexterity:​	184​	Perception:​	184​
Vitality:​	184​	Magic:​	184​
Aktive Skills​
Sleep Resistance:​	8​	Identify:​	6​
Reading:​	51​	Running​	25​
Writing:​	49​	Cleaning:​	13​
Calculating:​	40​	Cooking:​	11​
Inaktive skills​
Heavy Lifting​	11​	Childcare:​	1​
Washing​	19​	Driving:​	4​
Heat Resistance​	2​	Gardening:​	8​
Hiding​	4​	Drawing:​	16​

 

[LilRora]

Putting the age gap aside (not a problem for me but a number of people would probably have an issue) I think the description you've given is a bit too generic. Nothing really interests me just in that, other than the novelty of having a futuristic sci-fi LitRPG which are still pretty rare, largely because they are difficult to write. However, execution is more important than the content itself, so yes, it can become a worthwhile story if you develop and write it well.

Now, this might be bias, but I really don't like the status page. There's a lot of information that does not seem important and might be troublesome to you later, such as race, age, exp, or unequipped titles, and the skills are the classic selective mix that should blow up into hundreds if you wanted it to be realistic.

There's a number o ways to solve that issue, such as conscious skill selection or limited acquisition, but some of them seem extremely arbitrary and not something one would want to pick.

Also this is really minor, but aktive? That should be with c, active, unless it's something you did purposefully.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Probably not. LitRPG and system fans aren't really into romance and human interactions in general, while those who like romance don't really like systems. You can probably mesh those two together, but, sorry for saying it, certainly not with this kind of premise\idea. As LilRora said, it is generic, and I would add from myself that it is very generic.

 

[Sergeandgreen]

Now, this might be bias, but I really don't like the status page. There's a lot of information that does not seem important and might be troublesome to you later, such as race, age, exp, or unequipped titles, and the skills are the classic selective mix that should blow up into hundreds if you wanted it to be realistic.

There's a number o ways to solve that issue, such as conscious skill selection or limited acquisition, but some of them seem extremely arbitrary and not something one would want to pick.

Thats the reason i limited the skill slots to 8 active (i'm german and i just mispelled it becaus in german its aktiv) skills and 8 inactive skills. Even if you reach lets say, level 1 million. you would only have 18 inactive skills while and 8 active skills as a villager. Also, i think i forgot to mention that not each class advancement gets new eight skillslots. Only when picking up the new class after villagers do you get free 8 new skill slots. Sorry for the confusion.

also, the skills she picked are trash. Thats the first thing that gets corrected when she meets her teacher. I just wanted to show what the status would look like.

 

[RepresentingPride]

If I read a story about romance with litrpg and sci-fi, I would like to read about the exploration of different planets, not staying in a "village."
The age gap can make a lot run away from your story.
Also, it seem weird for me that a man who near 20 000 years old will fall in love with a 22 years old girl. Still, it can happen, but it will take time. Even more with what you wrote, the fact he waiting for a new class that can ressurect people from thousand year ago may sound like he stay alive only to find a way to ressurect his wife/lover.
The status has too much information. If used only once, it's fine, but using it multiple times will become boring, and what's the point of having a status so detailed if only used once?
The idea of your story seems like a lot of stories about a "guardian" in a backward village who suddenly encounters a random girl who travels, and the girl discovers that the "guardian" is op, etc. Like LilRora and Sailus said, it's kind of generic when just reading this.

 

[Sergeandgreen]

If I read a story about romance with litrpg and sci-fi, I would like to read about the exploration of different planets, not staying in a "village."
The age gap can make a lot run away from your story.
Also, it seem weird for me that a man who near 20 000 years old will fall in love with a 22 years old girl. Still, it can happen, but it will take time. Even more with what you wrote, the fact he waiting for a new class that can ressurect people from thousand year ago may sound like he stay alive only to find a way to ressurect his wife/lover.
The status has too much information. If used only once, it's fine, but using it multiple times will become boring, and what's the point of having a status so detailed if only used once?
The idea of your story seems like a lot of stories about a "guardian" in a backward village who suddenly encounters a random girl who travels, and the girl discovers that the "guardian" is op, etc. Like LilRora and Sailus said, it's kind of generic when just reading this.

Well, its a story that spans years. And the thing is that after a few hundred years of doing similar stuff memories meld together. The brain only processes and memorizes new experiences. (That's the reason why you have the feeling that time is going faster as you age). So yeah he is old as fuck, but he behaves like a 400 year old in the body of a 25 year old. Well, and as love is a process that is something that is regulated via hormones, so it can happen to anyone with a healthy body. But i guess you are talking about the mental or rational behind it. The reason i will give is deep-rooted loneliness. While everyone in the village knows him, and treats him well, he doesn't really have a group of friend that is still alive or a family to return to. A fact he suppressed for who knows how long. A fact he would have supressed even longer if he didn't get an unexpected roommate, if you will it. For him, her presence makes his house feel like a home. She becomes important to him. It's not something born out of sexual desire, even if looking like a twenty five year old and her looking like a 22 year old could add to that. For a long time it will also not be a physical relationship, just because he has the feeling that her presence is just a fleeting luck on his part, and that she will vanish like everyone else if he accepts her feelings.
Also, the only reason that 80-year-olds don't date 20-year-olds is that they often just can't. Also, the moment your body is in pain, your sex drive also goes back. So an 80 year old with whatever illness is less likely to do stuff like that.

And yes they would leave the village. Well, not immediately. But after some time. They will visit other planets. They will travel to cool locations, but in its core its not an adventure story.

But i guess, i understand that the core problem is that its generic. I thought i could bring something original into the genre by using the unusual sci-fi lit-rpg mix, but your arguments against that are reasonable.
Thanks for the feedback.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

But i guess, i understand that the core problem is that its generic. I thought i could bring something original into the genre by using the unusual sci-fi lit-rpg mix, but your arguments against that are reasonable.
Thanks for the feedback.

The problem isn't that it is generic. Now that I think about it, I phrased it really bad. The problem is the concept doesn't really mesh with the setting.

What I mean by that is the following. Your system sci-fi setting doesn't supplement the theme that is explored by your premise. A young person meeting an old(sometimes jaded) person, and their subsequent growth and change as a result of this meeting and relationship(doesn't have to be romantic) doesn't benefit from the LitRPG or system setting.

You shouldn't mesh themes and settings blindly, and have to think how to connect the two, so that both would benefit. That is if you actually want to make it work, and don't want to make something generic. Because there is nothing wrong with making something generic. I, for example, want to write something generic, it is a conscious choice.

 

[Sergeandgreen]

The problem isn't that it is generic. Now that I think about it, I phrased it really bad. The problem is the concept doesn't really mesh with the setting.

What I mean by that is the following. Your system sci-fi setting doesn't supplement the theme that is explored by your premise. A young person meeting an old(sometimes jaded) person, and their subsequent growth and change as a result of this meeting and relationship(doesn't have to be romantic) doesn't benefit from the LitRPG or system setting.

You shouldn't mesh themes and settings blindly, and have to think how to connect the two, so that both would benefit. That is if you actually want to make it work, and don't want to make something generic. Because there is nothing wrong with making something generic. I, for example, want to write something generic, it is a conscious choice.

So if i understand it correctly, you think that the setting isn't supplementing the story. But that was exactly what I wanted to show is possible. As i see it a lit rpg gives the feeling of progress (because we all like to see numbers rising), which stands against the fact that the system won't quantify the "romance" or "relationship". But my thought was that grinding skills together, and exploring how things work together is an activity that can be done together. Trying things out, failing at some, the usual up and down in live, just that the system offers an incentive to do and try something.
Then the sci-fi element. Well, i have to admit i just like to have complex worlds. I wanted to mix technology with overpowered humans. A society based on strength slowly subjugated by governments and empires with the ever growing technology. I also wanted to make it a topic that sci fi makes the life so easy that many people don't even bother to raise their skills to high. They just level for the vitality when they need it.
Another part i wanted to thematise is what such a long life span does to people. I mean, sure technology changes a lot, but after thousands of years, many people just stop caring about everything. They don't suffer, they aren't hurt but the "want" is gone. Some even stop leveling in the hope that aging changes that.

Also, Thanks for clarifying.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

But my thought was that grinding skills together, and exploring how things work together is an activity that can be done together. Trying things out, failing at some, the usual up and down in live, just that the system offers an incentive to do and try something.

That's a good example. The question I will ask you, do you need system for all of that? Do they have to actually see "+1 to cooking skill" for this to work? That's what I was talking about, they don't benefit each other. If you can take away system from it, and it still works, then what is the reason for the system to exist in the first place? How do I know that it works, because there are a lot of stories with this premise. You really don't need numbers, even as incencetive. Moreover, this leads to the thing I said before.

It's hard to balance what romance lovers and system lovers want. If incencetive to do new things comes solely from system, romance lovers won't like it. If it comes from romance, then what's the point of system?

Another part i wanted to thematise is what such a long life span does to people. I mean, sure technology changes a lot, but after thousands of years, many people just stop caring about everything. They don't suffer, they aren't hurt but the "want" is gone. Some even stop leveling in the hope that aging changes that.

Again, do you need system for this theme to work? Sci-fi is plenty enough for it, at least I think so.

So if i understand it correctly, you think that the setting isn't supplementing the story. But that was exactly what I wanted to show is possible. As i see it a lit rpg gives the feeling of progress (because we all like to see numbers rising), which stands against the fact that the system won't quantify the "romance" or "relationship". But my thought was that grinding skills together, and exploring how things work together is an activity that can be done together. Trying things out, failing at some, the usual up and down in live, just that the system offers an incentive to do and try something.
Then the sci-fi element. Well, i have to admit i just like to have complex worlds. I wanted to mix technology with overpowered humans. A society based on strength slowly subjugated by governments and empires with the ever growing technology. I also wanted to make it a topic that sci fi makes the life so easy that many people don't even bother to raise their skills to high. They just level for the vitality when they need it.
Another part i wanted to thematise is what such a long life span does to people. I mean, sure technology changes a lot, but after thousands of years, many people just stop caring about everything. They don't suffer, they aren't hurt but the "want" is gone. Some even stop leveling in the hope that aging changes that.

Also, Thanks for clarifying.

I would say, if you like the setting, maybe try changing the theme? It can still be romance, but try thinking of something that will benefit from systems and sci-fi? And I am not talking about "sex systems" or "romance systems" those are not what you want.

Maybe a story about "class difference" will work better? Combination of this theme with system is generic, but it does benefits from system, it benefits from society based on strength, and so on. Anyway, this is just one example. You definetely can come up with something better.

 

[CarburetorThompson]

Yes I’ll take a Sci-fi slice of life, hold the lit-rpg, thank you

 

[Sergeandgreen]

That's a good example. The question I will ask you, do you need system for all of that? Do they have to actually see "+1 to cooking skill" for this to work? That's what I was talking about, they don't benefit each other. If you can take away system from it, and it still works, then what is the reason for the system to exist in the first place? How do I know that it works, because there are a lot of stories with this premise. You really don't need numbers, even as incencetive. Moreover, this leads to the thing I said before.

It's hard to balance what romance lovers and system lovers want. If incencetive to do new things comes solely from system, romance lovers won't like it. If it comes from romance, then what's the point of system?

Again, do you need system for this theme to work? Sci-fi is plenty enough for it, at least I think so.

I would say, if you like the setting, maybe try changing the theme? It can still be romance, but try thinking of something that will benefit from systems and sci-fi? And I am not talking about "sex systems" or "romance systems" those are not what you want.

Maybe a story about "class difference" will work better? Combination of this theme with system is generic, but it does benefits from system, it benefits from society based on strength, and so on. Anyway, this is just one example. You definetely can come up with something better.

Okay, well, the system is the reason for their longevity, so in one way or another, I need a system or i wouldn't be able to create the society i imagined. It also is quite essential to make the guardian trope somehow possible in the way i imagined it. But what i don't understand is why the system can't be a topic of the story itself. I mean its slice of life. And the system is part of their daily live. So showing how people interact with it, what they want from it, and how they improve themselves through it can be an interesting journey in and of itself. Its about the joy they feel when they level up, about the feeling of accomplishment if two difficult-to-train skills fuse together, and the anger they feel when it doesn't work out. The system is more than "just" a representation of stats. It's an integral part of their society, their world view. And with it come expectations from society and yourself, like reaching a specific class rarity as a princess, or how you compare to your peers. Reaching level 100 and becoming eligible for a class advancement is a bit like getting your driving license when reaching the appropriate age. The sooner you have it the "cooler" you are among your peers. The princess grew up in an environment where stats and power meant something, if not to say everything. And like the system and sci-fi elements, romance is just as much a part of life in that world.

To make it a bit more obvious where the story should go, i will tell you the title. Its "Wake Up Call". My thoughts behind this was that the Princess will wake up from her stats are important and defining you, while the male lead will wake up from his everything is meaningless state of mind. That he helps her staying alive from the assassins while she helps him break out of his self made prison that is the village and the memories of people so long dead that he can't even remember their faces is just another thing.

I hope that was somehow understandable and somehow makes sense.
Also, could you explain a bit what you meant with class difference?

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Okay, well, the system is the reason for their longevity, so in one way or another, I need a system or i wouldn't be able to create the society i imagined. It also is quite essential to make the guardian trope somehow possible in the way i imagined it. But what i don't understand is why the system can't be a topic of the story itself. I mean its slice of life. And the system is part of their daily live. So showing how people interact with it, what they want from it, and how they improve themselves through it can be an interesting journey in and of itself. Its about the joy they feel when they level up, about the feeling of accomplishment if two difficult-to-train skills fuse together, and the anger they feel when it doesn't work out. The system is more than "just" a representation of stats. It's an integral part of their society, their world view. And with it come expectations from society and yourself, like reaching a specific class rarity as a princess, or how you compare to your peers. Reaching level 100 and becoming eligible for a class advancement is a bit like getting your driving license when reaching the appropriate age. The sooner you have it the "cooler" you are among your peers. The princess grew up in an environment where stats and power meant something, if not to say everything. And like the system and sci-fi elements, romance is just as much a part of life in that world.

To make it a bit more obvious where the story should go, i will tell you the title. Its "Wake Up Call". My thoughts behind this was that the Princess will wake up from her stats are important and defining you, while the male lead will wake up from his everything is meaningless state of mind. That he helps her staying alive from the assassins while she helps him break out of his self made prison that is the village and the memories of people so long dead that he can't even remember their faces is just another thing.

I hope that was somehow understandable and somehow makes sense.
Also, could you explain a bit what you meant with class difference?

Well, the reason for longevity can be technologies, the world is sci-fi. As for the question why the system can't be a topic. Again, everything you've said works even without a system. I can give you multiple works, manga, about people of craft. You don't need system. At it's core, the theme you talk about simply doesn't need it. I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm saying, it probably will look as a very cheap and lazy way to add some flavor since you can't add anything of substance to the actual topic.

The thing you talk about, how it makes you "cooler" in this setting, is a way to show it in the most plain and obvious way. Literally to show a reader the numerical equvivalent of their efforts, status, and so on. And yet again I say you don't need it. You don't need to show numbers in the spreadshhets to make such a society.

As for wake up call. Again, you simply don't need it. It really is that simple, and I don't know how to explain it properly.

You can try checking out Vinland Saga. It has some of the themes you talk about. And it doesn't need any system or litrpg. You don't need numerical equvivalents to understand who is cooler or not. You don't need numerical equvivalent for MC to wake up from his state either.

 

[Sergeandgreen]

Well, the reason for longevity can be technologies, the world is sci-fi. As for the question why the system can't be a topic. Again, everything you've said works even without a system. I can give you multiple works, manga, about people of craft. You don't need system. At it's core, the theme you talk about simply doesn't need it. I'm not saying you can't do it. I'm saying, it probably will look as a very cheap and lazy way to add some flavor since you can't add anything of substance to the actual topic.

The thing you talk about, how it makes you "cooler" in this setting, is a way to show it in the most plain and obvious way. Literally to show a reader the numerical equvivalent of their efforts, status, and so on. And yet again I say you don't need it. You don't need to show numbers in the spreadshhets to make such a society.

As for wake up call. Again, you simply don't need it. It really is that simple, and I don't know how to explain it properly.

You can try checking out Vinland Saga. It has some of the themes you talk about. And it doesn't need any system or litrpg. You don't need numerical equvivalents to understand who is cooler or not. You don't need numerical equvivalent for MC to wake up from his state either.

But the world wasn't always sci-fi. How can you explain people talking with jesus, when the immortality serum was only invented 4000 A.D.?

Also, just a question, isn't your argument killing the "right to exist" for any litRPG? I mean, you could always just say, someone learns magic by studying instead of getting a skill for it. You could always say someone trained and got more muscle, etc. I can't really think of a scenario where a "System" is absolutely necessary.

As for the society, you surely could use magic, cultivation, science, or something else to make such a society, but isn't showing how a world with a system developed through the ages and doesn't stagnate in the middle ages interesting? I mean, sure, you don't need it to build a power-based, long-living society, but my point is that it could be interesting to see what comes far far after a regular system based story. (Where the end isn't that someone becomes a weird eldertricht monstrosity that destroys the system.)
I mean, we can be of different opinions on that topic, and i guess that is fine. It's just that i don't really understand the "you don't need it" argument not really. It's like saying, they don't need games, food or stuff like that. Yeah you don't need to show it, but its slice of life and interacting with the world is what its all about. A system is just an expansion of that. And while its cool to sometimes see the progress in numbers or even aim for that, its not like it would be less interesting to see someone work for something if they see results in numbers. Or the otherway around, see what those high numbers can do in the world. The only trap behind it would be to make the whole story progress dependable on the system or make the system the sole focus of the story, which i don't plan to. There are enough things that aren't reliant on the system. It's just one part of their life.

Also, the character development i wanted to describe was that she starts out as someone who thinks the numbers are important, while he is in a depression where almost everything is meaningless to him. His problem is completely independent from the system. Sure, his habit includes doing quests, raising his stats, etc. but his problem is that he doesn't feel alive. Not that he thinks that the numbers mean nothing.Also, before you think he is just a sad slob, he doesn't really act too much on it. He fought of his "depression" with his habits. He keeps himself occupied with meaningless tasks to not think about it too much. He reached an equilibrium where his mental health stagnates at the lower edge of the spectrum. At least until she comes and destroys his routine. His lifeline. So yeah, you don't need a system or numbers for that.

Sorry if it sounds like you are talking against a wall. I just don't really understand the "you don't need it" argument, as its like saying your world doesn't need future tech, religion, or culture. I mean, a world would work perfectly without it, but it can also enrich your world. At least from my perspective.

 

[LoneQuack]

Reading these posts makes me believe you want justification for what you've already set your mind in creating. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't really understand the point if you're already on going with the idea.

Now, I am not going to attack you personally with this one, and I want to point out that the following is my own personal opinion, but systems are a bad thing in general in the world of books (in any kind of form). Gamifying your world is a fun idea to play in your free time with yourself but in no way shape or form should be added in a story. Games are stories- stories aren't games, they are not the same.

Every single part of 'the system' could be a implemented in a different way to give emphasis on other things such as the characters character, are the good guys or assholes? Their emotional state plays a detrimental role into this as well. There are the first two things that popped into me head and there are still coming but I'd be lose the point I'm trying to make by going on further.

Putting a system not only takes away from the characters you want to give us, but also shows that you are either lazy or unable to write proper plot thus resorting to the easiest-cheesiest way possible. Of course, there are exceptions but those are far and between, Shadow Slave being a prime example to how to use the system effectively, but I won't be diving into this rabbit hole.

I'll stop with this here because it has already taken a turn to a different direction, but as a last note, I want to repeat @SaliusGebel's point of you don't need a system to do what you've already said, but to end this in a lighter note since I (mostly likely) appear as an asshole- if the girl is in distress and the guy hugs her and the system goes like "+1 rizz" I'm all for it.

At the end of the day, you decide what you want to do with your work. If you enjoy it and have a clear way in creating it, go for it, who am I to stop you?

Goodnight (because its 1:30 in the morning) and stay safe!

 

[Sergeandgreen]

Reading these posts makes me believe you want justification for what you've already set your mind in creating. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't really understand the point if you've already on going with the idea.

Now, I am not going to attack you personally with this one, and I want to point out here that the follow is my own personal opinion, but systems are a bad thing in general in the world of books (in any kind of form). Gamifying your world is a fun idea to play with your free time with yourself but in no way shape or form should be added in a story. Games are stories- stories aren't games, so lets not pretend they are.

Every single part of 'the system' could be a implemented in a different way to give emphasis on other things such as the characters character, are the good guys or assholes? Their emotional state plays a detrimental role into this as well. There are the first two things that popped into me head and there are still coming but I'd be lose the point I'm trying to make by going on further.

Putting a system not only takes away from the characters you want to give us, but also shows that you are either lazy or unable to write proper plot thus resorting to the easiest-cheesiest way possible. Of course, there are exceptions but those are far and between, Shadow Slave being a prime example to how to use the system effectively, but I won't be diving into this rabbit hole.

I'll stop with this here because it has already taken a turn to a different direction, but as a last note, I want to repeat @SaliusGebel's point of you don't need a system to do what you've already said, but to end this in a lighter note since I (mostly likely) appear as an asshole: if the girl is in distress and the guy hugs her and the system goes like "+1 rizz" I all for it.

At the end of the day, you decide what you want to do with your work. If you enjoy it and have a clear way in creating it, go for it, who am I to stop you?

Goodnight (because its 1:30 in the morning and stay safe!

You are right and wrong with wanting justification or validation of the idea i guess. But a thread like that can help me see problems before they arise. It can also show me what to expect. For example, this thread has highlighted that most sci-fi readers don't like romance or litRPG or both. The other way around might be true as well. So now i know that should i decide to publish it, i can't expect many readers, no matter how good or fun the idea sounded in my head.
I might also revise the system as it was pointed out multiple times that its to much. I will also sleep over the thought of removing it entirely. But as currently like the idea of exploring a system world, i just need some time to think about whether I would like the story without it. I mean, especially in writing and "defending" a story, people are quite emotional. And a good idea of a story is like a little baby. It's not easy to accept that its ugly. Then I can decide if i will continue to raise an ugly baby, maybe put some make up on it or if that ugly thing gets the sparta treatment and i try something new.

Also, speaking the truth doesn't make you an asshole. At least not in this case.
Have a great day, or night.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

But the world wasn't always sci-fi. How can you explain people talking with jesus, when the immortality serum was only invented 4000 A.D.?

Brotherman, that's not for me to come up with. That's for the author.

I have to make a small remark. I just share my opinion. I think I am right, but in no way I force you to follow it, nor do I claim it's universally true.

Also, just a question, isn't your argument killing the "right to exist" for any litRPG? I mean, you could always just say, someone learns magic by studying instead of getting a skill for it. You could always say someone trained and got more muscle, etc. I can't really think of a scenario where a "System" is absolutely necessary.

Because they are not necessary. If you peel away the outer layers, the 'flavor' that systems can offer, you will notice how themes that systems can touch upon can be discussed without those systems. System is a negative thing and actively messes up with MC? It's a "man vs god" theme. Not the crhistian god, but the concept of god. System is buggy and not like other systems? It's a "individualism vs collectivism" or something like that. You get the gist of it.

There are some stories with systems or LitRPG that absolutely have to have them, but the amount is miniscule, and I can't come up with them myself.

As for the society, you surely could use magic, cultivation, science, or something else to make such a society, but isn't showing how a world with a system developed through the ages and doesn't stagnate in the middle ages interesting? I mean, sure, you don't need it to build a power-based, long-living society, but my point is that it could be interesting to see what comes far far after a regular system based story. (Where the end isn't that someone becomes a weird eldertricht monstrosity that destroys the system.)

How does a world with system differs from every that you've listed without the system? What system gives that you can't get without it? Apart from numbers. The thing here is that it makes it easier for you to come up with reasons for this or that. With system it's easier for you to explain people talking to Jesus. It doesn't really add anything to the reader apart from numbers.

I mean, we can be of different opinions on that topic, and i guess that is fine. It's just that i don't really understand the "you don't need it" argument not really. It's like saying, they don't need games, food or stuff like that. Yeah you don't need to show it, but its slice of life and interacting with the world is what its all about. A system is just an expansion of that. And while its cool to sometimes see the progress in numbers or even aim for that, its not like it would be less interesting to see someone work for something if they see results in numbers. Or the otherway around, see what those high numbers can do in the world. The only trap behind it would be to make the whole story progress dependable on the system or make the system the sole focus of the story, which i don't plan to. There are enough things that aren't reliant on the system. It's just one part of their life.

To understand it, would be easier for you to read works that have elements you want to use, but don't have any system. You don't need it, because it doesn't add anything to the story, to reader. It makes it easier for you to show this or that, but it doesn't make the story better.

It's not cool to sometimes see the progress in numbers, it's cool to see progress. Progress can be shown by numbers and subsequent reaction to numbers increasing. Or it can be shown by reaction to improving. See what's the problem here? And if you are going to ask how would they know they've improved, I would shake my head. So be careful.

Also, the character development i wanted to describe was that she starts out as someone who thinks the numbers are important, while he is in a depression where almost everything is meaningless to him. His problem is completely independent from the system. Sure, his habit includes doing quests, raising his stats, etc. but his problem is that he doesn't feel alive. Not that he thinks that the numbers mean nothing.Also, before you think he is just a sad slob, he doesn't really act too much on it. He fought of his "depression" with his habits. He keeps himself occupied with meaningless tasks to not think about it too much. He reached an equilibrium where his mental health stagnates at the lower edge of the spectrum. At least until she comes and destroys his routine. His lifeline. So yeah, you don't
need a system or numbers for that.

Do you want me to rewrite this part without system all while keeping what you want to achieve?

Sorry if it sounds like you are talking against a wall. I just don't really understand the "you don't need it" argument, as its like saying your world doesn't need future tech, religion, or culture. I mean, a world would work perfectly without it, but it can also enrich your world. At least from my perspective.

You should mention not on superficial level, but at the core, how system does it. Using the example of progress I showed how it doesn't enrich the story. It's simply changes the flavor a little bit.

 

[Sergeandgreen]

Brotherman, that's not for me to come up with. That's for the author.

The comment about jesus was meant as a joke.

I will answer to the rest tomorrow.
goodnight.

 

[Sergeandgreen]

I have to make a small remark. I just share my opinion. I think I am right, but in no way I force you to follow it, nor do I claim it's universally true.

Because they are not necessary. If you peel away the outer layers, the 'flavor' that systems can offer, you will notice how themes that systems can touch upon can be discussed without those systems. System is a negative thing and actively messes up with MC? It's a "man vs god" theme. Not the crhistian god, but the concept of god. System is buggy and not like other systems? It's a "individualism vs collectivism" or something like that. You get the gist of it.

There are some stories with systems or LitRPG that absolutely have to have them, but the amount is miniscule, and I can't come up with them myself.

How does a world with system differs from every that you've listed without the system? What system gives that you can't get without it? Apart from numbers. The thing here is that it makes it easier for you to come up with reasons for this or that. With system it's easier for you to explain people talking to Jesus. It doesn't really add anything to the reader apart from numbers.

Okay, now that i have slept over it a little, i think i understand what you mean far better. I mean, you can still do stuff even if you don't have a system that you improve, and a system destroys some of the immersion. Especially if the system influences the character in to many ways. takes from the character and doesn't add something of equal value. So if there is a system, it has to add something to the story. Something that wouldn't be there without it. If i ignore the longevity or add it in some other way, i could probably add most other things quite easily.
But then i realized that is not necessarily the case. The system, while there might have been a few new classes, etc, is in its core still the same from the time it was initialized. So the basic skills we know from most litrpg stories, are somewhat of a rudimentary art. I mean, if you have an Ai that you can tell you want food and you get it printed within a few seconds on the level of a michelin chef, you don't waste time to learn things manually. Same for many other arts. But this part could probably resolved just by saying the village she goes to is "oldschool". But then there are elements you can't just reasonably add. For example a villager in ancient times couldn't always hope to have something to eat. So a skill like hunger resistance is something most people had during that time. Now you could say, Yeah, but why would they need it in a sci fi world where they could literally print food any time they desire it. The answer is they don't. But the system offers ways where this skill can become useful, (like fusing with other resistance skills to a more universal resistance skill you only get when having x resistance skills at level x) And to level hunger resistance sounds far more comfortable than to level something like piercing resistance. And hunger does more than just robbing you of energy, it affects the mind. So you could write scences that could be used as a snickers advertisement. This is just one example of things they could/would do just because the system is there. But there are many other things too. And these unlikely scenes are what i want the system for. The contrast between an old system blended into a new society. And how a sci-fi society doesn't really need the system anymore, because almost everything the system could help with can be done with machines, but the system still is a symbol of status. (To be fair, our discussion guided me into that direction.)

It's not cool to sometimes see the progress in numbers, it's cool to see progress. Progress can be shown by numbers and subsequent reaction to numbers increasing. Or it can be shown by reaction to improving. See what's the problem here? And if you are going to ask how would they know they've improved, I would shake my head. So be careful.

That really gave me something to think about. I mean, i agree that only seeing progress in numbers makes the story dull. So i thought about how to make an accomplishment more than just a higher number. So my idea was that the skills don't actually affect your "skills". Let's take the overused cooking example again. Let's say the skill gives you an increase in stats while cooking (percantages or flat points doesnt matter) but doesn't increase your actual level of skill while cooking. So yeah, you have higher dexterity that helps in not damaging the yellow from the egg, or you can smell when something burns a little faster, but that doesn't help you make a three-tier cake or give you knowledge about recipees. The skills level with the time of effort you invested in them, but they don't actually grant you knowledge or abilities (At least the passive ones). So you could have a super high level in cooking, but some grandma with a better recipe would still cook a better meal than you. Swordfighting is the same. Sure, a skill like that makes you faster, stronger, etc, but it doesn't teach you swordsmanship.
Active skills (skills that grant you an ability) are a different thing though. And I will think about a solution for that. I mean, no amount of stats will let you shoot a fireball, let you fly, or shoot energy blasts from your sword. So I will need to find a way to make those skills still require skill and don't let the progress depend entirely on the numbers.


Also, thank you again. It was a random story idea, and just writing with you helped me think about why and what i want to do with the story. Even if we aren't necessarily of the same opinion regarding the system, i think i learned something from the discussion.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

The contrast between an old system blended into a new society. And how a sci-fi society doesn't really need the system anymore, because almost everything the system could help with can be done with machines, but the system still is a symbol of status.

This is actually a good idea. But I still don't think it suits the theme of relationship of a young and old person.

Let me beat this dead horse one last time. Let's say you(generic you) want to write a story about generational conflict. Generational conflict isn't about actual fight or arguing, it's a theme about different worldviews of two or more generations and similar problems. It's about understanding different values, and so on. And you(again, generic you) decide to write this story, and you add a lot of worldbuilding, and there is a lot of exposition in the book. It is cool and all, it adds a different flavor, but it doesn't supplement the theme. Because the focus of generational conflict should be people. In other words, dialogues and their interactions.

Is worldbuilding cool? Sure. Will people like it? Some will. Does it add to the theme? No. Moreover, it detracts from the story, in a way that you should spend time on two things rather than one. This means you will have to spend more words, and eventually your story will split into multiple parts. Perhaps you saw reviews under some novels that mention how the story is basically split into different parts.

It doesn't mean you can't do it, but at best you will simply combine them together. They won't benefit from each other. Meanwhile, you can change the theme into identity search, and you will benefit from worldbuilding. A person who doesn't know what to do travels here and there, and has a lot of various experiences because of that. It supplements the theme of a person looking for a place in the world, what to do in the world, and you get what I mean.

Also, thank you again. It was a random story idea, and just writing with you helped me think about why and what i want to do with the story. Even if we aren't necessarily of the same opinion regarding the system, i think i learned something from the discussion.

We do have different opinion on systems and LitRPG. It's not my intention to prove you wrong or 'win' an argument. I wanted to share my opinion, and I am glad our conversation helped you, even if only a little bit.