She/Her/It

[ThisAdamGuy]

I've been working on my pirate story a bit, and I just realized that I've spent the entire thing (which admittedly isn't much) calling all the ships "it." "He turned the ship's wheel and turned it to starboard." I really don't want to have to go back and replace every instance of "it" with "she" or "her." Is this the kind of thing you, as a reader, would care about, or even notice?

 

[RedMuffin]

Wait, isn't "it" the correct thing to use?

 

[ThisAdamGuy]

Wait, isn't "it" the correct thing to use?

Traditionally, you refer to ships as female. "Lower her sails and raise her anchor, she needs to be ready to sail in five minutes." No idea where it came from, and I've never actually met anybody who does that, but it seems like the kind of thing people would get hung up on.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

I've been working on my pirate story a bit, and I just realized that I've spent the entire thing (which admittedly isn't much) calling all the ships "it." "He turned the ship's wheel and turned it to starboard." I really don't want to have to go back and replace every instance of "it" with "she" or "her." Is this the kind of thing you, as a reader, would care about, or even notice?

Personally, I wouldn't care about it. Can't speak for experts in such areas though.

 

[RedMuffin]

Traditionally, you refer to ships as female. "Lower her sails and raise her anchor, she needs to be ready to sail in five minutes." No idea where it came from, and I've never actually met anybody who does that, but it seems like the kind of thing people would get hung up on.

I mean, that's probably for the sailors who are basically married to their ship, so maybe it is that?

Well, I don't think it's correct to use "she/her" for ships because it's not like they have a gender or something.

I think it's more like a form of showing affection for the tool, like for example, there's this thing about people calling their car a good girl and referring to it using "she" or people calling a gun "bad boy", you get what I mean, right?

 

[John_Owl]

Wait, isn't "it" the correct thing to use?

A sailor's first love is their ship. so yeah, you could use "it", as that's TECHNICALLY correct. But since when have sailors (specifically pirates) been any form of correct? Vehicles of all sorts have been called by feminine pronouns since horse-drawn carriages. so you've got technically correct or colloquially correct, and these aren't the same in this instance.

 

[ThisAdamGuy]

Well, I don't think it's correct to use "she/her" for ships because it's not like they have a gender or something.

I'm not going to argue about how sailors talk when you could take five seconds to do a Google search and see for yourself.

 

[John_Owl]

Traditionally, you refer to ships as female. "Lower her sails and raise her anchor, she needs to be ready to sail in five minutes." No idea where it came from, and I've never actually met anybody who does that, but it seems like the kind of thing people would get hung up on.

I'm far from an expert, however, I have studied the theories of sailing. From my experience, it's largely superstitious. When you're out on the open ocean, weeks from land, your have 1 lifeline - the ship. As such, you don't do ANYTHING to piss her off. she is your best friend, your first love, your only means of not drowning. Sure, it could potentially not have any effect. BUT why risk it when it's such a small thing to treat her like she's alive?

Further, "She came alive as the wind shuttered through her sails". Ships are commonly described as "being alive" when under power. you woldn't call a horse an "it" simply because it's being ridden (thus, making it a pseudo-vehicle).

 

[Representing_Tromba]

It can be she, her, or it but if you want to please(avoid comments complaining about it) those who are sailors and/or know about boats then using she or her would be better.

 

[RedMuffin]

A sailor's first love is their ship. so yeah, you could use "it", as that's TECHNICALLY correct. But since when have sailors (specifically pirates) been any form of correct? Vehicles of all sorts have been called by feminine pronouns since horse-drawn carriages. so you've got technically correct or colloquially correct, and these aren't the same in this instance.

I get what you mean, but my point was that using the "it" is correct and there's no need to change the whole thing.

I'm not going to argue about how sailors talk when you could take five seconds to do a Google search and see for yourself.

I did, and I believe you didn't get my point. I don't think this would be something average reader would really notice.

 

[John_Owl]

I get what you mean, but my point was that using the "it" is correct and there's no need to change the whole thing.

And I wasn't disagreeing. He could go technically correct and refer to the ship as "it". Or he could go colloquially correct and switch it all to feminine. doesn't really matter, so long as he's happy with his story.

I say this because proper grammar doesn't exist in every aspect of real life. It really only matters for those who use it daily or those who care about being proper. Pirates are neither. The first rule of writing is that every rule can be bent or broken when appropriate. having a pirate call their ship "it" would be correct by the rules. Having a pirate call their ship "her" could be historically correct. so which correct is more important for immersion? that's what's important here.

 

[CarburetorThompson]

Use find and replace feature. don’t do automatic just read the context before you replace the word, will take some time, but not too long

 

[RedMuffin]

And I wasn't disagreeing. He could go technically correct and refer to the ship as "it". Or he could go colloquially correct and switch it all to feminine. doesn't really matter, so long as he's happy with his story.

I say this because proper grammar doesn't exist in every aspect of real life. It really only matters for those who use it daily or those who care about being proper. Pirates are neither. The first rule of writing is that every rule can be bent or broken when appropriate. having a pirate call their ship "it" would be correct by the rules. Having a pirate call their ship "her" could be historically correct. so which correct is more important for immersion? that's what's important here.

Okay, but that depends on the narrative, if it's from the perspective of a sailor, sure, it would be better for more immersion to use "she/her" but I believe it's correct and more appropriate to use "it" when it is the narrative that's referring to the ship and not the characters.

 

[beast_regards]

I would refer to Moderator John as "it" from now on.

 

[RedMuffin]

I would refer to Moderator John as "it" from now on.

That would be rude.

 

[beast_regards]

That would be rude.

...but grammatically correct. It doesn't have a gender.

Isn't the media teaching is that the gender is the construct, and it doesn't exist?

 

[RedMuffin]

...but grammatically correct. It doesn't have a gender.

No, it is not correct. He has a gender, it's literally on his profile.

Isn't the media teaching is that the gender is the construct, and it doesn't exist?

I wouldn't know.

 

[John_Owl]

Okay, but that depends on the narrative, if it's from the perspective of a sailor, sure, it would be better for more immersion to use "she/her" but I believe it's correct and more appropriate to use "it" when it is the narrative that's referring to the ship and not the characters.

I've read books that went solidly "a ship is an item. It has no gender." and books that treated ships like a member of the group. It's definitely just my opinion, but the ones that treated the ship as a character were far better. And if you want the reader to be treated like an outsider being told the story, then sure, the narration should call the ship "it". However, if you want the reader to feel like they're there, in the action, personify the ship.

...but grammatically correct. It doesn't have a gender.

Isn't the media teaching is that the gender is the construct, and it doesn't exist?

"welcome to whose america is it anyway, where everything is made up and the words don't matter!"

 

[RedMuffin]

And if you want the reader to be treated like an outsider being told the story, then sure, the narration should call the ship "it". However, if you want the reader to feel like they're there, in the action, personify the ship.

Sure, that is your opinion as you said and I respect that, and the previous one was also just my opinion, so it's ultimately up to the author—in this case @ThisAdamGuy—to decide which approach to use depending on his preference.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

I've been working on my pirate story a bit, and I just realized that I've spent the entire thing (which admittedly isn't much) calling all the ships "it." "He turned the ship's wheel and turned it to starboard." I really don't want to have to go back and replace every instance of "it" with "she" or "her." Is this the kind of thing you, as a reader, would care about, or even notice?

In this case, yes. Ships are always female. It is an ancient maritime tradition and even one of the few instances in the English language that ignoring the grammatical gender is encouraged, if you are talking about your own. So really bad luck here.