Question for seasoned authors

theartofwar901

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I'm learning about the art of telling different types of stories, and it made me wonder. When the way authors write stories with all their tactics and techniques is de-mystified and you understand the science of story telling in different genres, does this subtract or add to your enjoyment when reading novels or watching movies? I can't personally answer that for myself cuz I'm still learning, but I'm curious to what seasoned writers and authors have found out about this.
 

LunaSoltaer

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For me, I have approximately three "modes" of handling books: Reader Mode, Writer Mode, and Editor Mode.

Writer Mode is obvious: I'm piloting the damned pen and writing, I harness my background and tools and channel my muse into a productive endeavour.

Reader Mode is I'm just chilling as a reader. My writing experiences inform my reading experiences, which gives me additional insights as to what does which, but the two can synergise.

Editor Mode is when I read something to burn it the fuck down and if I like you, rebirth it into something greater :P
 

owotrucked

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From my experience in many forms of arts, greater understanding doesnt remove anything from enjoyment. It makes you better at articulating your taste.

Knowing what sugar is made of doesnt make it any less tasty
 

Representing_Tromba

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It depends. I psychoanalyse everything now and look out for flaws in the writing. Sometimes it enhances my view of the story but a good amount of the time it ruins the enjoyment for me.
 

theartofwar901

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I'm starting to think it will help me enjoy reading stories more now that I think about. Kind of like with sports. One can't appreciate the game quite as much if they don't understand how it works, but once you understand the difference between a jab and a hook when watching a Tyson match, you begin to appreciate and see the fun in watching the sport even more. I guess its kind of like life itself. You can think positive and have inner joy and peace, or think negatively and sink into despair or depression. I suppose its all about perspective.
 

owotrucked

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It depends. I psychoanalyse everything now and look out for flaws in the writing. Sometimes it enhances my view of the story but a good amount of the time it ruins the enjoyment for me.
I think psychology is your model of whats believable and reasonably realistic. Fictional worlds that goes outside your bounds would feel unrealistic and loses appeal.

The same way how knowing physics will make you dissatisfied if a story violates physical laws you know.

For exemple, we know little about how we'd fare in different gravity. Yet some characters may suddenly change gravity. And the story will paint a new random behavior like being slowed in higher gravity.

But actually, there's the possibility that stronger gravity makes your sprinting speed higher as long as you're strong enough to stand up. Likewise if character gets 'buffed' with lower gravity, it's likely that they'll just fumble and overshoot up instead of being faster.

Another exemple is smithing. Writers may say that the metal must be high temperature or it'll be bad quality. Actually high temperature makes the metal oxidize faster, and IRL cold forging is useful because the metal gains strain hardening. The true reason for high temperature smithing is because people are too weak to shape steel at room temperature.

In the end, everyone has their degree of tolerance. Im willing to overlook stuff as long as its internally consistent

All this stuff is a judgement about the content itself. But knowing about writing structures and tropes doesnt put strong presupposition about the content itself

Obviously if you read the same story 10 times, you'll start predicting the content and the effectiveness of a trope will get weaker. But if a new story executes a trope in its own way with its own subversion, it'll satisfy you as if you experienced the trope for the first time
 

RepresentingCaution

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If it starts subtracting from your enjoyment, just procreate so you won't have any more time to read, and when you do find a little time to read, you'll be reading parenting books ?
 
D

Deleted member 84247

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For me, I have approximately three "modes" of handling books: Reader Mode, Writer Mode, and Editor Mode.

Writer Mode is obvious: I'm piloting the damned pen and writing, I harness my background and tools and channel my muse into a productive endeavour.

Reader Mode is I'm just chilling as a reader. My writing experiences inform my reading experiences, which gives me additional insights as to what does which, but the two can synergise.

Editor Mode is when I read something to burn it the fuck down and if I like you, rebirth it into something greater :P
It is always a challenge to leave editor mode when you just want to have an enjoyable reading experience.
^ Take this sentence, for example.
"It is hard to leave editor mode for an enjoyable reading experience."
Concise.
Even then, "improve this sentence for clarity."
I think psychology is your model of whats believable and reasonably realistic. Fictional worlds that goes outside your bounds would feel unrealistic and loses appeal.

The same way how knowing physics will make you dissatisfied if a story violates physical laws you know.

For exemple, we know little about how we'd fare in different gravity. Yet some characters may suddenly change gravity. And the story will paint a new random behavior like being slowed in higher gravity.

But actually, there's the possibility that stronger gravity makes your sprinting speed higher as long as you're strong enough to stand up. Likewise if character gets 'buffed' with lower gravity, it's likely that they'll just fumble and overshoot up instead of being faster.

Another exemple is smithing. Writers may say that the metal must be high temperature or it'll be bad quality. Actually high temperature makes the metal oxidize faster, and IRL cold forging is useful because the metal gains strain hardening. The true reason for high temperature smithing is because people are too weak to shape steel at room temperature.

In the end, everyone has their degree of tolerance. Im willing to overlook stuff as long as its internally consistent

All this stuff is a judgement about the content itself. But knowing about writing structures and tropes doesnt put strong presupposition about the content itself

Obviously if you read the same story 10 times, you'll start predicting the content and the effectiveness of a trope will get weaker. But if a new story executes a trope in its own way with its own subversion, it'll satisfy you as if you experienced the trope for the first time
This ^
 

VictorDLopez

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I like to suspend my disbelief when reading fiction--and that includes turning off my inner critic and (harder to do) my inner editor. The sausage is much tastier if you don't stop to analyze exactly what is in it, how it is made, or trace back the acquisition and processing of the ingredients to the poor animal(s) that were slaughtered and butchered in its making.

My process, my voice, my subjects and my approach to writing is not the same as that of others--including my favorite authors. I would not change a word in the universes they create and in which I happily live as a full-fledged citizen when I read their work, and I would not want them to infect mine with their admittedly better talents. Writing is a craft, yes and I have spent years learning it and many more years learning to ignore what I learned when it suits me. Concentrating on the craft and following all the rules might make my work "better", and perhaps "more popular", but it would lose the uniqueness--the art, for good or ill, that only I can create, be it good, bad or mostly ugly. If readers concentrate on how it could be better if only I paid closer attention to X or followed the rules that instructor Y inculcated in them in classrooms or workshops, they will miss the forest for the trees. That would serve nether them nor me well in my view.
 

Cipiteca396

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All this stuff is a judgement about the content itself. But knowing about writing structures and tropes doesnt put strong presupposition about the content itself
I have to... disagree.

I was watching a playthrough of the newer Aliens game, and during a certain scene the let's player got upset and started talking about how bad the writing for the scene was.
I was in 'reader' mode, and just enjoying the scene for what it was, but their criticism pushed me into writer mode.
At that moment, I realized exactly why the writers had written the scene the way they did... And frankly, that moment was what I was referring to when I said it can make a story feel cheap and clichéd.

Several major events happened for a very specific and convoluted plot point. The writers needed the main characters to be in a certain position, and they decided that the only way for that to happen was to kill off certain other characters. But they couldn't justify killing those characters normally, so they had to stage the events that the player complained about.

So in conclusion... I guess you could say knowing writing conventions makes a well written story much more interesting. If you have no idea what's happening, you can still enjoy the story, whether it's well written or not... Sometimes.
 

LilRora

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Personally, I would say it makes it much less enjoyable to read badly written stories (since I can't help but notice one mistake after another that I would have fixed) but on the other hand makes reading really good stories a whole different experience since I can apprieciate just how much effort it took to write that work.

On another note, it's a good thing to separate writing techniques and the prose itself. I've seen a lot of videos that describe some classic or common tropes or archetypes, and I'm honestly sick of them. Like the hero's journey, which is used a lot in storytelling and which is ridiculously predictable unless written really well.

Most of my feelings there come from the fact that what I enjoy the most in stories is the mystery and the unknown. Learning about it, when it's shown well, will be enjoyable for me regardless of my own writing proficiency and knowledge. However, when it's written badly, either the story itself or the prose, then I'll be even more deterred by it when I see just how bad it is. The difference here is that bad prose is glaringly visible even without any experience in writing, but recognizing a bad story is not something a random Bob would be able to do.
 

Corty

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Does this subtract or add to your enjoyment when reading novels or watching movies?
Nope. It's either "Oh, this is fun" or "Oh, this isn't fun," and that is it. I am not big-braining anything because A) I don't have a big brain and B) I won't fuck up the entertainment for myself on purpose.
 

J_Chemist

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I typically find it easy to separate my work from my enjoyment of others, but writing has given me a better understanding of how much effort and research actually does and should go into writing a good story. You can half ass anything, but you can tell when someone hasn't put in the leg work to provide accurate information to the reader.

If they don't know a topic, it's easy to see their lack of understanding when they glaze over or provide inaccurate information. In my work, I do the research and take that time so I'm not bullshitting my readers, even when it comes to my own self-made magic system.

Even so, I'm with Corty. I can still have fun even if the writing is cheeks so long as the story is actually a good time. I can shut off my thinking cap and let my head melt for a little bit of dopamine, unless it's just really, really bad.
 

owotrucked

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I have to... disagree.

I was watching a playthrough of the newer Aliens game, and during a certain scene the let's player got upset and started talking about how bad the writing for the scene was.
I was in 'reader' mode, and just enjoying the scene for what it was, but their criticism pushed me into writer mode.
At that moment, I realized exactly why the writers had written the scene the way they did... And frankly, that moment was what I was referring to when I said it can make a story feel cheap and clichéd.

Several major events happened for a very specific and convoluted plot point. The writers needed the main characters to be in a certain position, and they decided that the only way for that to happen was to kill off certain other characters. But they couldn't justify killing those characters normally, so they had to stage the events that the player complained about.

So in conclusion... I guess you could say knowing writing conventions makes a well written story much more interesting. If you have no idea what's happening, you can still enjoy the story, whether it's well written or not... Sometimes.
Good point.

Ignorance can make the audience sit through a story more easily.

Just as you say, it's unclear whether ignorance is enough to enjoy a bad story. If a story pulls some bullshit to move the characters where they 'need' to be, readers could feel it intuitively at the end, though they might not be able to realize it on the spot (it's just that they dont have the complete picture).
 

greyblob

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nothing odd about noticing flaws or thinking "I'd have done this differently". everyone looks at things from their own perspective. it's good and healthy for the mind. keeps you thinking and tickles your creativity

i guess the keyword here is immersion. sometimes you find something so out of place -whether it's a typo or a plot hole- that you just cannot ignore. other times a work captures you completely regardless of its 'flaws'.
 

Comiak

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Both. Sometimes I can appreciate the attention to detail, but sometimes dumb and stereotypical shortcuts just make me cringe.
 
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