Popularity doesn't matter in terms of quality.

[D4isuke]

Popular works sometimes don't get really well to the story — which the readers/viewers alike are looking for one or several subjective matter to the fiction... a value which make them attracted the most, but some of them have good contrasting quality.

Let's take the Demon Slayer for example; of course, that anime is surely one of my favorite anime that feels fresh and unique, and it isn't follow by the "power of friendship" cliche (more like "power of siblings"), and most of the characters are doing good job INDEPENDENTLY while every one of them relied on different things. It's like a military strategy where spreading across the enemy is more effective and sufficient rather than congregated into a big army and clashing each other in terms of portrayal. Of course, the rear part of the army would be useless since they were waiting for a line to kill the crowds of enemy... except we get into a "climax" part of the story — which I don't want to spoil further, but you know... if you already read the manga.

So going back to topic, what makes Demon Slayer "attractive"? Is it because of Ninja's tweet that he watched the episode 18 and he praised it because it was sick as fuck? Or is it because the anime is worth fresh watching to see how the value of the story differs from every "cliche" animes or movies. At first, it talks about moral diversion where demon is bad "because they eat humans" and demon hunter is good "because they kill the demons to save the humans", but as we get into deeper climax, it's pretty much morally ambiguous at that part already.

As such, Demon slayer is a good example of a "best quality, and popular" anime show. Honorable mention would be Fullmetal Alchemist, Re: Zero, and Hunter X Hunter (more like Hiatus X Hiatus).

So what are the examples of popular shows that aren't best on quality?

Sorry for the fans of SAO, Naruto, Bleach, DBZ, Marvels (except infinity war), DC Comics, and most battle shonen series... but these are the series that I personally and truly disagreed the most. Why?

It's MORALLY BIASED AND OVERUSED

(Rant Incoming)

The stories focused between "good" idols and "bad" idols, battling each other for the sake of their mere moral and ethical ideologies. Heroes go save people while villains go kill people because that's how they solely portrayed their own characters itself.... and predictably, heroes are mostly gonna win the conflict... because why not, they're glorious... just glorious over IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE... blah blah blah.

And to us people with decent and mature mindset doesn't get it at all. It's so unrelatable, unrealistic, and irrational which we really don't understand at all... more like, it's for the kids/young teens demographic, but why do most adults cried over this? I don't get it at all. It doesn't give much message, contexts, and philosophy at all. I don't really give a fuck about these "moral and ethical" ideologies. It's like a new religious cult preaching crazily with cliches from other religion, but in new ideal, modern style that fits for kids, teens, and "manchild" adults. That's it...

These particular works don't give much relatable sense... the quality and value are sometimes so absurd that it only bring an epic hype to bring more people up to boost. It doesn't give much understanding beyond what's right or wrong. The concept are really frustrating that the society we live on right now is blindly biased to one value that they think the "majority" is right at all. That's how popularity works and marketers would really feel the orgasm about it, and to follow, the fame goes in effect, and as you know, bearing with fame is like bearing with trashy, spoiled food with a lot of artificial ingredients being made through.

To conclude my opinion,

I would say that the popular shows with moral and ethical bias DOESN'T GIVE MUCH SENSE AND FUCKS AROUND OUR TRUE NATURE OF HUMANITY.

Works that has mainly gray morality, great philosophical sense, and relatability are GOOD, ORGASMIC, COOL SHITS that I would really feel fresh around my cool sense of mindset.

This is how I feel when watching/reading a good, philosophical stories!!!!

 

[Ace_Arriande]

And to us people with decent and mature mindset doesn't get it at all. It's so unrelatable, unrealistic, and irrational which we really don't understand at all... more like, it's for the kids/young teens demographic, but why do most adults cried over this? I don't get it at all. It doesn't give much message, contexts, and philosophy at all. I don't really give a fuck about these "moral and ethical" ideologies. It's like a new religious cult preaching crazily with cliches from other religion, but in new ideal, modern style that fits for kids, teens, and "manchild" adults. That's it...

Maybe people don't care about it being relatable because they want to escape the boring greys of reality for something that makes them feel good instead? I mean, don't get me wrong. It's perfectly alright if you don't like these stories, but it's pretty silly to imply that anybody with a "decent and mature mindset" wouldn't enjoy these stories. Personally, I despise anything grimdark, edgy, morally grey, etc. I like my happy noblebright stories where the good guys win with very few exceptions. If I wanted all that "realistic" stuff, I would turn on the news. If I wanted to read philosophy, I would go read actual philosophers.

Also, for about a decade there, there was a huge swing toward dark and "mature" stories. We're only just now swinging back toward the happy noblebright stuff now that people have gotten tired of the mature stuff again (and, you know, just look at the state of the world). It's a pendulum that swings back and forth. In another decade or so, people will probably want more darker and "mature" stories again - well, depending on the state of the world. The darker the world becomes in people's perceptions, the more they're going to want to escape to the opposite of that.

Also, just to show how subjective things are,

As such, Demon slayer is a good example of a "best quality, and popular" anime show. Honorable mention would be Fullmetal Alchemist, Re: Zero, and Hunter X Hunter (more like Hiatus X Hiatus).

None of these are standout shows in any way to me. I do like FMA and Re: Zero, but they're just as generic as SAO, Avengers, Naruto, etc. Maybe FMA is a bit deeper and more complex than the others. Maybe. But that doesn't change that they're all generic and full of stereotypical anime tropes. That's not a bad thing to me, either. I love stereotypical anime tropes. But yeah, you can look at any of the series that you mentioned and pick out specific "deep" or "mature" things from them.

Anyways, I recommend checking out https://www.reddit.com/r/rational/ for some stories. I personally dislike any story that would warrant getting posted there on the basis that the community there has the exact opposite interests from me, but it sounds like something you might like. I hope that you can find some new stories that suit your tastes even if I disagree with them.

 

[Polarize4777]

If it is enjoyable and I like it, then that is the end of the conversation. Also, originality is near extinction lol, every story you have read is just a mish mash of combinations and that about sum up most media we consume for entertainment. If you don't enjoy a certain story or show, it is simply not your cup of tea and looking at it with certain lens with certain standards is always going to lead to disappointments.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

There isn't a story out there without moral and ethical bias. However, we may see morality differently based on how we understand the world. Some stories only reach the amber level of understanding. Since most people can at least relate to the amber level of thinking, and it makes people feel good when they can understand something, that's what winds up popular.

 

[D4isuke]

We're only just now swinging back toward the happy noblebright stuff now that people have gotten tired of the mature stuff again (and, you know, just look at the state of the world). It's a pendulum that swings back and forth. In another decade or so, people will probably want more darker and "mature" stories again - well, depending on the state of the world. The darker the world becomes in people's perceptions, the more they're going to want to escape to the opposite of that.

Judging from watching the retro and current shows, the majority even the past shonen engages to violence, sex, or anything else that is deeply mature. I kinda love those times when gore was a thing before, but now, they used it as a horror concept (specifically body horror). The plot and from the 80s or 90s was a splendid job to innovate the genre in specific basis.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

There isn't a story out there without moral and ethical bias. However, we may see morality differently based on how we understand the world. Some stories only reach the amber level of understanding. Since most people can at least relate to the amber level of thinking, and it makes people feel good when they can understand something, that's what winds up popular.

What are these new currents? For me, philosophy has already reached its end stage with Heidegger. Everything afterwards is just rebranding under different name. Integral? What is that?

 

[AliceShiki]

Popular works sometimes don't get really well to the story — which the readers/viewers alike are looking for one or several subjective matter to the fiction... a value which make them attracted the most, but some of them have good contrasting quality.

Let's take the Demon Slayer for example; of course, that anime is surely one of my favorite anime that feels fresh and unique, and it isn't follow by the "power of friendship" cliche (more like "power of siblings"), and most of the characters are doing good job INDEPENDENTLY while every one of them relied on different things. It's like a military strategy where spreading across the enemy is more effective and sufficient rather than congregated into a big army and clashing each other in terms of portrayal. Of course, the rear part of the army would be useless since they were waiting for a line to kill the crowds of enemy... except we get into a "climax" part of the story — which I don't want to spoil further, but you know... if you already read the manga.

So going back to topic, what makes Demon Slayer "attractive"? Is it because of Ninja's tweet that he watched the episode 18 and he praised it because it was sick as fuck? Or is it because the anime is worth fresh watching to see how the value of the story differs from every "cliche" animes or movies. At first, it talks about moral diversion where demon is bad "because they eat humans" and demon hunter is good "because they kill the demons to save the humans", but as we get into deeper climax, it's pretty much morally ambiguous at that part already.

As such, Demon slayer is a good example of a "best quality, and popular" anime show. Honorable mention would be Fullmetal Alchemist, Re: Zero, and Hunter X Hunter (more like Hiatus X Hiatus).

So what are the examples of popular shows that aren't best on quality?

Sorry for the fans of SAO, Naruto, Bleach, DBZ, Marvels (except infinity war), DC Comics, and most battle shonen series... but these are the series that I personally and truly disagreed the most. Why?

It's MORALLY BIASED AND OVERUSED

(Rant Incoming)

The stories focused between "good" idols and "bad" idols, battling each other for the sake of their mere moral and ethical ideologies. Heroes go save people while villains go kill people because that's how they solely portrayed their own characters itself.... and predictably, heroes are mostly gonna win the conflict... because why not, they're glorious... just glorious over IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE... blah blah blah.

And to us people with decent and mature mindset doesn't get it at all. It's so unrelatable, unrealistic, and irrational which we really don't understand at all... more like, it's for the kids/young teens demographic, but why do most adults cried over this? I don't get it at all. It doesn't give much message, contexts, and philosophy at all. I don't really give a fuck about these "moral and ethical" ideologies. It's like a new religious cult preaching crazily with cliches from other religion, but in new ideal, modern style that fits for kids, teens, and "manchild" adults. That's it...

These particular works don't give much relatable sense... the quality and value are sometimes so absurd that it only bring an epic hype to bring more people up to boost. It doesn't give much understanding beyond what's right or wrong. The concept are really frustrating that the society we live on right now is blindly biased to one value that they think the "majority" is right at all. That's how popularity works and marketers would really feel the orgasm about it, and to follow, the fame goes in effect, and as you know, bearing with fame is like bearing with trashy, spoiled food with a lot of artificial ingredients being made through.

To conclude my opinion,

I would say that the popular shows with moral and ethical bias DOESN'T GIVE MUCH SENSE AND FUCKS AROUND OUR TRUE NATURE OF HUMANITY.

Works that has mainly gray morality, great philosophical sense, and relatability are GOOD, ORGASMIC, COOL SHITS that I would really feel fresh around my cool sense of mindset.



View attachment 2743This is how I feel when watching/reading a good, philosophical stories!!!!

What I take from your post is basically that... You're confusing your own personal taste with quality.

Quality has to do with having a good plot, good character development and good scenes. The vast majority of the series you mentioned fill at least 2 of those criteria, often times all 3.

Let's take Dragon Ball for an example... (Let's ignore the existence of Dragon Ball Super for this one, alright? Super is pure trash)

Good plot? It was okay, it started out as an adventure story about chasing magical spheres and ended up as a battle shounen to save the world. The plot itself is by no means terrible, but it certainly wasn't very deep.
Good character development? That Dragon Ball certainly has. In Goku and Vegeta mainly, you can see how they grow as people, make mistakes, learn from said mistakes and become better and more caring to their own families and the friends they made.
Good scenes? Pfffft, good? Fantastic you mean. Not only it has the best battles in any shounen ever, but it also has some really touching moments that you don't expect in a battle shounen. (Like Vegeta sacrificing himself to kill Majin Buu (And fail to do so))

It's certainly a high quality series... Does it fit your taste? No. Does it need to? Not at all. It's not for you.

Don't confuse personal taste with quality. Some things are objectively bad (Like Dragon Ball Super or the newest trilogy of Star Wars), but other things are simply not to your taste, which is okay. Not everything needs to appeal to everyone.

 

[Moctemma]

or the newest trilogy of Sky Wars

Do you mean Star Wars?

 

[Alverost]

Do you mean Star Wars?

No, Sky Wars. When the Rain met Winter and gave birth to Hail. Sky Wars coming to your cinema in 2021.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

philosophy has already reached its end stage with Heidegger.

This is exactly why my dad got bored in his college philosophy class and told me not to bother taking one.
Yay, we exist. OK, now what?

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

This is exactly why my dad got bored in his college philosophy class and told me not to bother taking one.
Yay, we exist. OK, now what?

Your dad is a wise man then with a wise daughter.

 

[Ral]

You are really talking more about taste and personal preference than quality. If you want philosophical stories, it is fine. There are many great philosophical stories.

However, there is nothing wrong with stories that are mainly escapism. It also tells very little about a person's mindset if they, say, like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic or Power Puff Girls.

The thing is, fiction's main purpose is to entertain. They have to make their audience enjoy what they see be it philosophical or not.

Though, I kinda agree that shounen has become cookie cutter. New shows tries to be like the others, and often being lazy about it too. It is better to just watch the shows they are copying from. Like, look at Disney's live action reboots. Totally forgettable. Just watch the original.

I think this lack of variety is the real problem here. No matter how you love anything, you will get sick of it if that is all you get. Just you wait when all things are just deep, dark and philosophical, then you will be pinning for light, sunny and escapist stories. I also love shows that philosophical and dark but that doesn't mean I want all shows to be like that (nor does it mean I can only enjoy those kind of stories). That would only ruin what I loved.

 

[AliceShiki]

Do you mean Star Wars?

... How did I make this typo?

No, Sky Wars. When the Rain met Winter and gave birth to Hail. Sky Wars coming to your cinema in 2021.

*rolls laughing*

This is exactly why my dad got bored in his college philosophy class and told me not to bother taking one.
Yay, we exist. OK, now what?

Now we become philosophy teachers and teach that to elementary school children~

 

[D4isuke]

I think this lack of variety is the real problem here. No matter how you love anything, you will get sick of it if that is all you get. Just you wait when all things are just deep, dark and philosophical, then you will be pinning for light, sunny and escapist stories. I also love shows that philosophical and dark but that doesn't mean I want all shows to be like that (nor does it mean I can only enjoy those kind of stories). That would only ruin what I loved.

Just like when I finished playing horror games, then I would head over to the cat videos for my mood swing.

I can relate to that..

 

[LilithFairen]

You are really talking more about taste and personal preference than quality. If you want philosophical stories, it is fine. There are many great philosophical stories.

However, there is nothing wrong with stories that are mainly escapism. It also tells very little about a person's mindset if they, say, like My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic or Power Puff Girls.

It's interesting that both the shows you listed as a contrast to "philosophical stories" are both shows made for female audiences, but you're also ignoring the fact that a huge part of Friendship is Magic's popularity came from the themes and philosophies the show shared through its episodes.


Frankly, grey morality is an extremely-overrated indicator of "deep" storytelling. Are some conflicts more complicated than "black and white"? Of course. Are there flawed good people, and bad people with some positive aspects? Sure. But a lot of "grey morality" amounts to acting as if everyone is a horrible person deep inside, ignoring the people who do strive to do good for others without selfish desires in mind—when "grey morality" don't just have such characters to either paint good people as hypocrites or set them up just to be broken. And all too often, "grey morality" tries to paint an equivalency between genuinely horrible people and folks who simply aren't perfect.

You get a far better picture of humanity and reality when black and white are colours that exist as part of a spectrum, rather than using one single shade of grey.

 

[Ral]

It's interesting that both the shows you listed as a contrast to "philosophical stories" are both shows made for female audiences, but you're also ignoring the fact that a huge part of Friendship is Magic's popularity came from the themes and philosophies the show shared through its episodes.

No. Morals. Morals it share. And lessons too. But no where near any real philosophizing where it makes you question fundamental stuff.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Dunno, I like grey morality in terms of storytelling but will agree that a large amount of published/posted/etc. fiction today trying to do grey morality are just...not doing it well. No other way to explain it. They just aren't. Rather than trying to revel in deep storytelling about the flaws of the world, real or fantasy, while having good and bad and people in the middle trying to shape it in their own way......its become more about who can betray who the most horrifically, followed by some really obnoxious revenge tales. That and its seen a large influx of OP MC's and that's never a good sign for anything. That and it's become a pissing contest of who can create the shittiest world possible.

Also, fuck Naruto. I refuse to watch Boruto because Sarada SHOULD NOT exist. The Uchiha are a disgusting clan and the world would have been better off without them. I agreed with the Second Hokage concerning them. Fuck the Uchiha. Fuck Naruto for the blatant political corruption involved in getting him acquitted of his crimes. Sasuke should have had his head rolling off a chopping block or at the very least, had his chakra system shattered and left unable to be a future problem for anyone else. The show as already declining before then, but that was the end of my interest in that universe. Sasuke living is NOT justice. Power of friendship trope ruins another series.

That was the last anime I've bothered watching. They're all getting progressively worse anyway.

 

[weakwithwords]

// (AliceShiki): How did I make this typo?
When you wish upon a star, you look at the sky so far.

care bears vs gummy bears

Society changed and we now have jaded, angsty, salty kids who think they are already adults instead of enjoying what little childhood they have left before this ugly and beautiful world ends.

 

[BenJepheneT]

Dunno, I like grey morality in terms of storytelling but will agree that a large amount of published/posted/etc. fiction today trying to do grey morality are just...not doing it well. No other way to explain it. They just aren't. Rather than trying to revel in deep storytelling about the flaws of the world, real or fantasy, while having good and bad and people in the middle trying to shape it in their own way......its become more about who can betray who the most horrifically, followed by some really obnoxious revenge tales. That and its seen a large influx of OP MC's and that's never a good sign for anything. That and it's become a pissing contest of who can create the shittiest world possible.

Also, fuck Naruto. I refuse to watch Boruto because Sarada SHOULD NOT exist. The Uchiha are a disgusting clan and the world would have been better off without them. I agreed with the Second Hokage concerning them. Fuck the Uchiha. Fuck Naruto for the blatant political corruption involved in getting him acquitted of his crimes. Sasuke should have had his head rolling off a chopping block or at the very least, had his chakra system shattered and left unable to be a future problem for anyone else. The show as already declining before then, but that was the end of my interest in that universe. Sasuke living is NOT justice. Power of friendship trope ruins another series.

That was the last anime I've bothered watching. They're all getting progressively worse anyway.

Boruto is the epilogue of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows taken to an extreme. Change my mind.

 

[AliceShiki]

That was the last anime I've bothered watching. They're all getting progressively worse anyway.

Don't write off all animes because of some bad ones! >.<

There are still plenty of great animes being made! You just need to look at the right place!

Like Zombieland Saga was pretty great for one. The new Digimon Anime also looks super promising!

Quality ebbs and flows between animes, it is by no means in a downwards spiral! >.<