Plot questions for everyone.

[Tempokai]

When asking about how storytellers write their stories, there's informal agreement that plot divides in two: character-driven and plot-driven. But everyone has that threshold where one becomes the other. Now, the questions:

1. What is a character driven story? How it differs from plot driven story? What makes it fail to be a character driven story?

2. What is a plot driven story? How it differs from character driven story? What makes it fail to be a plot driven story?

3. Why there could be other story drivers, but they're inconsequential compared to those two? Why two people can look at the same story and say it's either plot driven or character driven?

I'll answer it tomorrow/day after. I'm pretty sure everyone have different things to say about it, and I want to read it.

 

[Valmond]

Witch…!

 

[RainyLiquid]

I think all three of these can be summed up with: whatever the writer felt like focusing on the most. If the story heavily focuses on the characters and is more about their emotions, or way they view the world around them its character focused. If the story focuses more on the world and the plot is what is dragging the characters around rather then the characters chasing the plot, its plot focused.

 

[Deleted member 206441]

Fool me once... twice not fool the fool master!

 

[Santaisblue]

1. When the main focus is the connection between characters, this can be romantic or platonic.
2. When the focus is on events such as kingdoms at war, a battle against a demon king, etc.
3. No, those two already cover everything.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

When asking about how storytellers write their stories, there's informal agreement that plot divides in two: character-driven and plot-driven. But everyone has that threshold where one becomes the other. Now, the questions:

1. What is a character driven story? How it differs from plot driven story? What makes it fail to be a character driven story?

2. What is a plot driven story? How it differs from character driven story? What makes it fail to be a plot driven story?

3. Why there could be other story drivers, but they're inconsequential compared to those two? Why two people can look at the same story and say it's either plot driven or character driven?

I'll answer it tomorrow/day after. I'm pretty sure everyone have different things to say about it, and I want to read it.

IMO, the difference is in the focus of the story. If the story focuses on what happens, when and where, it is plot-driven, while if it focuses on who the events happen to, and how they react to them, it is character-driven.
Some stories balance these elements, so that the reader can decide if it is character or plot driven, but if nothing drove a story, you wouldn't HAVE much of a story. Some slice-of-life stuff might be driven by nothing in particular, but that usually only works for short stories and ultimately is more frustrating than anything else in longer fiction.

Even a "show about nothing" (Seinfeld) was driven by the characters but contained both single-episode and over-arching plots (but the characters were always more important - and often less likeable - than the events).

Probably the best example of purely plot-driven stories would be the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books, which make the reader a character in the story and have it progress through programmed choices rather than a straight narrative.

 

[Daitengu]

1. In character driven, there's no outside force pushing the main characters to do something. It's about character interaction and growth. A lotta slice of life stories are like this. It fails if there is no character development, or if the readers just can't care about the characters.

2. Plot driven is pretty much what action movies do. Outside forces are doing x thing that the MC doesn't like, which forces them to act. Plot stories fail if they can't/don't resolve the main problem.

3. I don't think that there is a third type so much as a solid story just has both. Characterization gets the media inbiber to emotionally invest into a character. While plot is the excuse needed to do stuff.

 

[JayMark]

I think plot and characters are intertwined but character is more important. Take two stories.

Avalanches on the Mountains of Lifeless Planets: The entire story is a series of intricately described avalanches of various mountains. But there are no people or anthropomorphised animals. There are no animals. All the avalanches take place on a barren lifeless planet. Lots of action is happening. Storms. Volcanic explosions, avalanches, but there is no living thing involved. It's action, a planet reforming, plot without character.


Bob's Dreamless Sleeping: This is a story of Bob. But only when he goes to sleep at 10pm until he wakes up at 6am. He has no dreams and sleeps very soundly. So the story is essentially a log of his regular sleep schedule. This is character without plot.

Neither of those stories would be an interesting read beyond an academic exercise in frustrating your brain for no good reason.

But the story about Bob is allowed to venture a character. If we can find interesting things that happen to him while he sleeps, there is more potential for relation to the character despite the lack of action. Small actions can become hugely impactful. Like the cat that sits at the foot of his bed. Or the spider that likes to crawl into his ear. Would an earthquake shake him awake? Find out in the next chapter of Bob's Dreamless Sleeping.

The existence of a character demands plot, demands action, no matter how small.

Meanwhile an entire world is being thrown into an uproar of avalanches as its sun explodes, but nothing alive was ever there to care so all the noise, explosions, plate shifting, volcanic eruptions that can fill a chapter will ring hollow for 99.9 percent of readers. Unless we cheat and turn the planets into anime girls, which somehow can make anything relateable.

In fact, Avalanches on the Mountains of Lifeless Planets doesn't even have a plot, because a series of actions with no central goal being pursued = no plot. Because true plot is dependent on character goals.

And lastly, The Endless Void, which has neither the minimal requirements to argue a plot or characters. When you open this book, there are blank pages. Actually, maybe 50,000 Shades Of Gray would suffice for an actual example.

Moo.

 

[LilRora]

1&2. The way I see it, a character-driven story is one where the course of the story is determined by character goals and motivations, while a plot-driven story's course is dictated by vague momentum, a sort of direction that is not decided by individual people but an average, or a sum of those actions. In general, however, I prefer to use the word "narrative" or something similar, as multiple of those may exist simultaneously within a story. Those often overlap, and there may be multiple chains of events within one story that just follow different directions. Many stories merge both types of plots, where we see some kind of grand plot-driven narrative and a smaller, character-driven tale that takes place within that bigger whole.

Broadly, I think the biggest difference between the two is that character-driven stories are personal at the core, while plot-driven stories are impersonal - even though they may describe many characters with individual goals, they exist within a bigger framework which sidelines individuality and focuses more on contributions to something greater than a sum of its parts.

A story fails to be character-driven if characters have no convincing goals and motivations, and fails to be plot-driven if there is no cohesive direction to the world, or at least smaller or larger environment, it is placed in.

3. Frankly, I do not think there can be other story drivers, at least not within the framework I explained above. Any type one may come up with will match either of those broad types. The reason why it's generally so easy to spot is exactly because at the core it is a binary selection, which only appears complex in execution as there are uncountable ways to actually present a story even within narrow confines.

 

[Danja]

When asking about how storytellers write their stories, there's informal agreement that plot divides in two: character-driven and plot-driven. But everyone has that threshold where one becomes the other. Now, the questions:

1. What is a character driven story? How it differs from plot driven story? What makes it fail to be a character driven story?

2. What is a plot driven story? How it differs from character driven story? What makes it fail to be a plot driven story?

Character-driven:

Think of films by Paul W.S. Anderson, Gus Van Sant, and Paul Thomas Anderson. Slam-bang, balls-to-the-wall action takes a back seat to the exploration of the characters. The characters' personalities and experiences dictate their responses to a given situation.



Plot-driven:

Just the opposite of character-driven (think James Bond). Character development takes a back seat to wall-to-wall action (007 really hasn't changed all that much over the past sixty years).

 

[Deleted member 84247]

I will not be gotten again!

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I will not be gotten again!

 

[georgelee5786]

When asking about how storytellers write their stories, there's informal agreement that plot divides in two: character-driven and plot-driven. But everyone has that threshold where one becomes the other. Now, the questions:

1. What is a character driven story? How it differs from plot driven story? What makes it fail to be a character driven story?

Id say it a story where events happen for the sake of advancing the characters. If the characters make sudden changes without good reasons, it fails.

2. What is a plot driven story? How it differs from character driven story? What makes it fail to be a plot driven story?

A story where events for the sake of advancing the story. A failed one would be when the plot is illogical or things just happen for no reason.

3. Why there could be other story drivers, but they're inconsequential compared to those two? Why two people can look at the same story and say it's either plot driven or character driven?

Because plot driven or story driven are simpler to do and often fulfilling enough

My answers are not up for debate, I am right

 

[Zagaroth]

Character driven: The characters have goals and challenges that have little, if anything, to do with any antagonistic force. They are building or doing something for their own sake. Not in response to the presence of a villain or a natural disaster. This is the thing they *want* to do.

Plot driven: The characters were existing in some fairly static, mundane loop if life, and then [event] happens that drives them to respond to the event, and the entire story is a continual process of responding to the events until the plot is resolved.

Most stories are a mix. Mine is probably about 80-90% character driven, but an antagonistic force does make itself known and they do need to respond to it. But they also get to really chose how to respond; there's no One McGuffin that is the thing that they have to do some specific action with in order to defeat the big bad, or other Plot Device.

Heck, even for the current training arc, there were two locations that the readers have been aware of since fairly early on that I could have chosen from. When the choice needed to be made, I selected the one that would make the most sense to the characters, given their current needs. And decisions have consequences.

There are multiple named characters that would not have come into existence if they had gone to the other location. Completely different characters would have been written into existence that match that environment and the different events that would have taken place. The characters choices change the way the story unfolds; in a plot drive story, the characters choices are selected by the needs of the plot.

 

[bulmabriefs144]

As to #3, I'm honestly wracking my brain thinking of something alternative to plot and character. Either events happen, or characters do things. Or a mix of the two.

I suppose if I had to reach, maybe non-driven story? Kinda just a cozy novel where people kinda hang around. Suffice it to say, such a story is difficult to write and more difficult to sell.

Or what I might call a hobby-driven story. Usually those are written by autistic people or otakus, as the story is effectively a pretext to showcase the thing in question, and the story doesn't have to drive things.

 

[Little-Moon]

1. A story where desicions of the MC are the main reasons that drive the plot forward.
It fails when you forget your MCs character and do out of character things for them. (Such as you are writing a super clever MC and suddenly they fail to use their brains.)
Or when an MC is too perfect as in they are spotless, because that would mean every conflict is solved with perfection and that makes a story boring.
Or at least thah are two main reasons for me to see a character driven story fail.

Write OP when you want, or incredibly smart but give em a weakness. Make your super witch shy for example (like in the silent witch) or just give them a inability to comprehend emotions like we do (as in semantic error)

2. A story where the plot/lore/culture are what make the story roll and move. Such as wars, political engagements, or even just a exam in school.
it fails for the same reasons as above. You don't stick to it, you confuse things or you do not give it a good reason for happening.

Political intrigue? You need a good reason for one first. No good reason for soemthing to happen no good plot when in a world driven story.

Personally I believe a story with a good mix of both types is what makes a difference.

3. I do think you might have answered that one to yourself already.

 

[ShrimpShady]

This is going to sound completely incoherent, but here goes.

I've read a lot more "literary fiction" than "genre fiction", and the former tends to fall more on the character-driven side of the spectrum. To me, what character-driven really means is that the story puts way more emphasis on the characters' thoughts, feelings, interactions, and development, often allowing these things to flourish without any sort of concrete guiding hand. Something like Breasts and Eggs by Mieko Kawakami (I know, bizarre namedrop for a webnovel forum) focuses way more on the inner workings of its characters than it does some sequence of cause and effect bringing the story to a conclusion.

On the other hand, plot-driven stories focus on getting between a generally clear point A to point B. Their appeal lies in watching the pieces come into play, the causality between each story beat. Something like Ubik by Philip K. Dick poses its questions upfront, and it keeps pulling you deeper into the rabbit hole wondering where it's going. While the book does have cooky characters, they feel almost secondary to the batshit insanity that is the plot.

Of course, they aren't mutually exclusive. All stories have characters. All stories have some kind of plot as well, whether it be an overarching driver of a whole book or of a single 4koma gag. It's about which elements are brought to the forefront and which elements people latch onto.

As for the third question, it's time to do the thing and say that language is made up and we just invent words so we can talk about concepts more easily. The reason why some people can experience a story two different ways is probably because plot-driven and character-driven are:
1. Not objective concepts set in stone. Different people might have different ideas on what they mean, and people bring their own baggage to a story.
2. Aren't mutually exclusive.

And for the other story drivers, idk. I guess aesthetics is one potential driver, at least in a visual medium. It typically isn't as strong as the other drivers (except if you're Demon Slayer) because most people expect stories to be good stories. While aesthetics definitely help with that, a lack of a compelling plot or characters is a lot more noticeable.

 

[Fairemont]

Id say that story vs character driven is the equivalent of fiction vs non fiction in that it is two massive categories settled at the top (or near top) of the pyramid of macro options.

Character driven is effectively the character impacting the world/setting as the predominantly driving factor of the fiction in question.

Conversely, story driven concepts would be the world impacting the character as the majority driving factor.

This means that it is either protagonist proactive or protagonist reactive. Alternatively: does the plot necessitate a particular protagonist (who possesses certain traits and goals) or does the story happen no matter who the protagonist is.

I would say that these are not mutually exclusive and most would be story driven or more appropriately, setting driven. To maintain a pure character driven story for the entirety of a longer fiction would be extremely difficult.

You could easily break these down or add nuance to them, but I think they are the two highest tiers of storytelling methodology.

 

[Danja]

I'm not a fan of "obstacle course" storytelling (throwing random, nonsensical stuff into the plot just for the sake of ratcheting up the dramatic tension).

I've seen it done badly too many times. It strikes me as being leaden, mechanical, and predictable.

 

[Anonjohn20]

What is a character driven story?

Good question, because I have never heard this in my life. All plots (it was known as "narrative" before internet lingo/jargon) are "the sequence of interconnected events within a narrative." There are things happening to the characters, so if there are no characters, then there is no plot. I guess all stories are character-driven.

I guess there will be some to disagree with me, but there are no plot-driven stories; the plot/narrative is what is doing the driving, not being driven.