Writing Making MAGIC 2 - Writing Magical Battles

DireBadger

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Which of the idiotic ads are you referring to? The one drawn by Jeff Dee? The one that showed three different, disconnected parts of what appeared to be an ongoing series? Or one of the two photographs using Gygax's kids and their friends, photographed by a TSR staffer?

You probably are NOT referring to the one that had the third generation D&D Basic cover art?

The worst one. The one where there's a group of kids in the background around a table, and one kid in the foreground holding the basic D&D set and saying "I don't need them, I have dungeons and Dragons."

The very concept showed that whoever wrote that stupid ad had no friggin' clue whatsoever what D&D was, and just threw together some retarded idea with obvious product placement. Literally, the worst advertisement ever.
 

CharlesEBrown

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The worst one. The one where there's a group of kids in the background around a table, and one kid in the foreground holding the basic D&D set and saying "I don't need them, I have dungeons and Dragons."

The very concept showed that whoever wrote that stupid ad had no friggin' clue whatsoever what D&D was, and just threw together some retarded idea with obvious product placement. Literally, the worst advertisement ever.
IIRC the kid was the recently, sadly, departed Ernie Gygax (or Ernie was at the table and Luke was the "speaker") and the kids around the table were his brothers, sisters and some friends.
There was also an ad I have only seen in scans, so don't know where it was published, that used E. G. G.'s oldest daughter, at the time an amateur model who had some success but never made it big, relying on "sex sells" to push the game.
 

StoneInky

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No professional publishing house will allow writing the character's name as a title at a POV switch ... or so you say.

--> Points aggressively to Heroes of Olympus by Rick Riordan
 

OokamiKasumi

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No professional publishing house will allow writing the character's name as a title at a POV switch ... or so you say.

--> Points aggressively to Heroes of Olympus by Rick Riordan
Points aggressively to the fact that Rick Riordan has a clause in his contract that says he doesn't want an Editor to check his work -- and it SHOWS.

When you can sell a million copies of a book on your name alone, you'll get to have a contract that says you can skip the editor too. But until then...the editor makes the rules.
 
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StoneInky

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Points aggressively to the fact that Rick Riordan has a clause in his contract that says he doesn't want an Editor to check his work -- and it SHOWS.

When you can sell a million copies of a book on your name alone, you'll get to have a contract that says you can skip the editor too. But until then...the editor makes the rules.
I didn't know that, that's useful and interesting info. Nobody really talks about stuff like this. From how you know so much, I'm guessing you work in a related field, or maybe as a professional writer? That's really cool!

Lmao, but I do feel surprised Rick Riordan skips editors. I would do anything for one, personally. But that explains why so much of his work has... weird decisions.
 

OokamiKasumi

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I didn't know that, that's useful and interesting info. Nobody really talks about stuff like this.
Ah, that's right. It's not something people talk about -- except other authors. Authors are major gossips between themselves.

From how you know so much, I'm guessing you work in a related field, or maybe as a professional writer? That's really cool!
I'm an author. I have over 30 titles published to my name. Not this name, of course. I have a lot of gossipy fellow authors that tell me all kinds of things.
-- Did you know that Steven King, Laurell K. Hamilton, Anne Rice, George RR Martin, and Nora Roberts/JD Robb, all have the same 'no editor' clause in their contracts?
-- Did you know that Amanda Quick uses a Ghost Writer to finish her books when she can't?

Lmao, but I do feel surprised Rick Riordan skips editors.
It's an author ego thing. Once they passed the million copies sold mark, they all seem to suddenly think they can write like gods, and dump their editors. Which is Dumb.

I would do anything for one, personally.
I love my editors. They were harsh bitches, but my work reads so much better for their corrections.
(I still cannot be trusted with punctuation. Seriously.)

They taught me so much that doesn't show up in any writing book anywhere.

But that explains why so much of his work has... weird decisions.
As I said, it shows that Riordan doesn't have an editor anymore.
 
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StoneInky

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I'm an author. I have over 30 titles published to my name. Not this name, of course. I have a lot of gossipy fellow authors that tell me all kinds of things.
-- Did you know that Steven King, Laurell K. Hamilton, Anne Rice, George RR Martin, and Nora Roberts/JD Robb, all have the same 'no editor' clause in their contracts?
-- Did you know that Amanda Quick uses a Ghost Writer to finish her books when she can't?

If you don't want to say it, you don't have to, but now I'm curious about your novels. Lmao.

Also, no. I did not know about any of these details, so thanks for sharing the gossip.^^ Especially the ghost writer one. I'm surprised that's allowed; or did you mean she uses a co-author? Being a ghost writer sounds bad, co-author does not. Hm, and now I want to look up if there's anywhere I can exchange unfinished novels with other people, so we can complete each other's novels... sounds fun to do.

It's an author ego thing. Once they passed the million copies sold mark, they all seem to suddenly think they can write like gods, and dump their editors. Which is Dumb.


I love my editors. They were harsh bitches, but my work reads so much better for their corrections.
(I still cannot be trusted with punctuation. Seriously.)

They taught me so much that doesn't show up in any writing book anywhere.

Why would anyone ever let something as insignificent as ego turn them against people willing to help with their work? Dumb indeed. :)
Your editors sound lovely, lol.
 

7ydy

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.​

As for your Summoner, Do Not use their Summon's POVs.
-- If you have to do a scene with Summon vs Summon, use NO POV at all. In other words, No internal thoughts, feelings, or narration. Write it from an Outside Observer's POV. Just the Facts, Ma'am. Mainly because a summoned beast's thoughts and feelings should never be seen by the Reader, unless the Beast actually Speaks what they feel themselves. The main reason for this is: the Summoner --whose POV you should be using-- should always be worried that their summons will Turn on them. Don't ruin the mystery. Keep out of their Summons' heads
inverting this by writing a story from the summoned girl's perspective
 

OokamiKasumi

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If you don't want to say it, you don't have to, but now I'm curious about your novels. Lmao.
Google: Morgan Hawke. <-- don't forget the 'E' on the end.

Also, no. I did not know about any of these details, so thanks for sharing the gossip.^^
You're welcome!

Especially the ghost writer one. I'm surprised that's allowed;
It's allowed and it pays extremely well.
-- However...

or did you mean she uses a co-author? Being a ghost writer sounds bad, co-author does not.
Ghost writing is only good for money--nothing else.

The ghostwriter has to sign an absolutely vicious Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) to never ever expose who they wrote for, or they'll not only have to give all the money back, but be sued for the same amount, plus jail time, then being black-listed by all associated authors and agents, plus the publishing house the ghostwriter wrote for.

There is Nothing good about being a ghostwriter -- especially if you prove a good match for an $author$ having issues getting their manuscripts in on time.

-- The constant pressure to: hurry, hurry, hurry! Time = Money they could be making on that million-dollar-book if you'd just finish it!!!​
-- No time to write for yourself.​
-- No contact allowed with any other authors -- especially Not the one you're writing for.​
-- No talking about the book you're ghosting, not even to family. (It's in the NDA.)​
-- As soon as you finish ghosting one book-- "Oh! Here's another author you're a good match for. Do this book for us too, real quick!"​

And all it takes is ONCE.

Once the Agents and publishing houses know someone can ghostwrite, they pressure the ghostwriter into continuing to write for them, to the point that getting published under their own name proves impossible. Simply because there's just No Time to write for themselves.

They do this because the author they ghostwrite for is worth far more definite $$$ than then a new author's uncertain potential. Name Brand authors are worth millions, where a mildly unknown author is barely worth the paper they're printed on.
Never forget: Publishing houses always side with author worth more $$$.
It's not the Editor who decides if a book gets published -- it's the Marketing Department. Once the marketing department decides what manuscripts they want to sell, the editor's job is to make sure that the book is at least vaguely readable.​
This is how books like Twilight, Hunger Games, and 50 Shades of Gray got published despite their extremely shoddy writing. The marketing department liked them, not the editors.​

How do I know all this?
-- One of my better writing instructors was a professional ghostwriter. In fact, one of the people who ghostwrote for Amanda Quick. I took her online classes for speed-plotting.

The age of the Internet saved most of her sanity. (She didn't have much sanity left, let me tell you! She was paranoid as hell.) It is super easy to hide your identity on the internet, especially back in the 90's. She was so pent up about her ghostwriting experiences, she practically vomited it all out to her small class. There was only six of us.

Hm, and now I want to look up if there's anywhere I can exchange unfinished novels with other people, so we can complete each other's novels... sounds fun to do.
Actually, that does sound like fun! However, if you can't match the previous author's style of writing, the story is going to read wonky.

Why would anyone ever let something as insignificant as ego turn them against people willing to help with their work? Dumb indeed. :)
I dunno. I have a massive ego when it comes to writing--in case you couldn't tell. ;) But I would never, ever give up on having beta-readers or editors. (I am so bad with punctuation. So, so bad.)

Your editors sound lovely, lol.
You know that huge ass tutorial I did on Paragraphing and Dialogue? All that came straight from my editors. And No One teaches it! No One! There are No writing books, and No tutorials out there on how to paragraph properly -- except mine. I looked!

☕
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

inverting this by writing a story from the summoned girl's perspective
That actually sounds BRILLIANT!
-- Just don't show summoner's POV instead.

☕
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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CharlesEBrown

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Hm, and now I want to look up if there's anywhere I can exchange unfinished novels with other people, so we can complete each other's novels... sounds fun to do.
That was where H. P. Lovecraft made most of his money - as a "revisionist" - someone submitted a strong idea to a publisher but just did not know how to finish it or just had too many holes in it, so it got shipped out to one of their trusted revisionists to complete, and he did a lot of them. Got credit about half the time and money almost all the time.
 

OokamiKasumi

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Oh, damn- you're famous. I found your wikipage
I have a wiki page?! I had no idea!
-- Oh, they didn't list any of my NY books from Kensington...

and your novels on Amazon! It's sooo cool, lol. XD
I had books up on Amazon long before they started doing self-(vanity) publishing.

Ghostwriting... I shall remember that! Thanks for explaining it all to me, again.
Ghostwriting is scary business.
 

Danja

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It's an author ego thing. Once they passed the million copies sold mark, they all seem to suddenly think they can write like gods, and dump their editors. Which is Dumb.


I love my editors. They were harsh bitches, but my work reads so much better for their corrections.
(I still cannot be trusted with punctuation. Seriously.)

They taught me so much that doesn't show up in any writing book anywhere.

Hemingway's fights with HIS editors are the stuff of legend (Imagine having to contain THAT monumental ego!)

Forget selling a million copies ... Hemingway won a Nobel Prize! ?

Never forget: Publishing houses always side with author worth more $$$.​
It's not the Editor who decides if a book gets published -- it's the Marketing Department. Once the marketing department decides what manuscripts they want to sell, the editor's job is to make sure that the book is at least vaguely readable.​
This is how books like Twilight, Hunger Games, and 50 Shades of Gray got published despite their extremely shoddy writing. The marketing department liked them, not the editors.​

All three books have since spawned feature film franchises.

Maybe they were on to something ... :blob_hmm:
 
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OokamiKasumi

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Hemingway's fights with HIS editors are the stuff of legend (Imagine having to contain THAT monumental ego!) Forget selling a million copies ... Hemingway won a Nobel Prize! ?
Exactly!!!
-- It's all Hemingway's fault.

"...This is how books like Twilight, Hunger Games, and 50 Shades of Gray got published despite their extremely shoddy writing. The marketing department liked them, not the editors."

All three books have since spawned feature film franchises.
Films are not done the same way as books.

Screenplays are written by Committee. Or rather, 5 to 10 screenplays (written by 5 to 10 different people,) are submitted and the director pulls all their favorite parts from each one then mashes those parts together into one screenplay that they direct --and take credit for.

I am not joking here, this is how it's done for movies. Even if the book author is allowed to 'assist' or even critique, they don't even get to see the so-called screenplay until after the director has made their 'director's copy' from the screenplays available.

Screenplay writers are treated like garbage. THIS is why they all went on strike in the 80's, 90's, and 2000's. Not one of them were getting any credit --or Paid-- for their work. The TV screenwriters had it even worse. They made less money than Penthouse magazine writers.

There was a whole interview series in Playboy Magazine about a massive influx of actually decent porn being submitted --and published-- by well-known screenwriters (at the time) to make rent. Screenplays weren't worth the paper they were typed on.

Maybe they were on to something ... :blob_hmm:
Doesn't change the fact that the writing in those books is STILL shoddy. You'd think they'd have cleaned those up by now.
 
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CharlesEBrown

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Doesn't change the fact that the writing in those books is STILL shoddy. You'd think they'd have cleaned those up by now.
Meyers supposedly did get... well, at least COMPETENT by the time she scrapped the last book in the Twilight series (after a supposed friend sent a beta read copy leaked it to a fan site in its entirety). Have not heard the author of 50 Shades accused of competence by anyone yet though.
 

Danja

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Meyers supposedly did get... well, at least COMPETENT by the time she scrapped the last book in the Twilight series (after a supposed friend sent a beta read copy leaked it to a fan site in its entirety). Have not heard the author of 50 Shades accused of competence by anyone yet though.

#FunFact : Fifty Shades of Grey started out as a Twilight fanfic! ?
 

CharlesEBrown

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#FunFact : Fifty Shades of Grey started out as a Twilight fanfic! ?
Yep - have seen copies of the post where she admitted this - she wondered what it would be like if the characters met as adults and used BDSM to gain power instead of blood and magic. And it went downhill from there (sadly right into an epic pile of money)
 
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