Looking for technical feedback

Not_A_Fis

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Hello, first time poster here, both on this forum and of a story in general...

My main motivation to actually release something I'm writing to the public for the very first time was to get some feedback, but even though I got a surprising amount of readers already, none of them has left any comments yet, so I have no idea if any of them actually likes the story or not. As a complete amateur and non-native speaker, I lack both the experience and the natural perspective to evaluate my story by myself.

I'm particularly looking for more "technical" feedback, as I feel that's where most of my weaknesses lie - specifically, about the pacing, the writing style (especially the minimalist approach to visual description), and the dialogues.

I'd be very thankful if you could help me out here. If you're willing to, here's the story: Still Waters (GL)
 

L1aei

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Hello, first time poster here, both on this forum and of a story in general...

My main motivation to actually release something I'm writing to the public for the very first time was to get some feedback, but even though I got a surprising amount of readers already, none of them has left any comments yet, so I have no idea if any of them actually likes the story or not. As a complete amateur and non-native speaker, I lack both the experience and the natural perspective to evaluate my story by myself.

I'm particularly looking for more "technical" feedback, as I feel that's where most of my weaknesses lie - specifically, about the pacing, the writing style (especially the minimalist approach to visual description), and the dialogues.

I'd be very thankful if you could help me out here. If you're willing to, here's the story: Still Waters (GL)

Uh... I'll get back to you on this; I just burnt my braincells power-reading through someone else's ten chapters and giving them feedback on it within an hour. I'm fried. :blob_dizzy:
 
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I'm relatively new to loafing around in this neck of the woods myself, but if you are getting a lot of readers and you check your story statistics and can see consistent views across your chapters- that's not nothing and indicates people probably like your content. Even if they aren't leaving the comments we yearn for.
 

Not_A_Fis

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I'm relatively new to loafing around in this neck of the woods myself, but if you are getting a lot of readers and you check your story statistics and can see consistent views across your chapters- that's not nothing and indicates people probably like your content. Even if they aren't leaving the comments we yearn for.
Thank you, this does soothe my panicked heart a bit. Viewership seems relatively consistent, with slight drops between release days (which hopefully means those readers just haven't checked for newly released chapters yet - it's only the third day so far).

Uh... I'll get back to you on this; I just burnt my braincells power-reading through someone else's ten chapters and giving them feedback on it within an hour. I'm fried. :blob_dizzy:
And thank you as well, I completely understand that feeling lol. I'll be looking forward to hearing your impressions then, once your brain has cooled down :blob_evil_two:
 

L1aei

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And thank you as well, I completely understand that feeling lol. I'll be looking forward to hearing your impressions then, once your brain has cooled down :blob_evil_two:

Much appreciated. Okay... so, I am gonna start with the fact that I'm not entirely a fan of GL fics. Dunno why. It's not like I hate them, just can't get into them as much as I would others that revolve around different themes. Who knows... but that is derailing away from what you wanna hear, so let's get into that.

You got some good control over the tone of the setting; it's consistent and Nat's got some logic backing her up. Also, that mirror scene? Pretty cool. And I'm glad the chapters are rather short, personally. I'm still not all there up in my head from yesterday. :sweat_smile:

But there is a small issue I'm seeing. Maybe it is just me? Actually, it probably is me who sees this as an issue. You see, Natalie is the only person I'm really interested in. The rest of the world? Meh, I've read it already; you're following canon. That's probably why it is keeping its consistency so very well.

Okay, like, you got your prologue from 1990, then start things off in London. Got it. We have the major events, such as the sorting, that troll, our beloved mirror, and we start getting into the social outcomes. Again, I really liked the mirror scene.

Now, the troll put on some legal aspects I never considered. That's pretty cool. The moral stuff? Yeah, I already had those in my mind, but didn't consider the former. Nice call on putting that in there. :blobthumbsup:

You got the conflict with Snape going on. I ain't going to poke around that because this is expected; who isn't gonna be that way around him? And, hell, Malfoy... yeah, that was beyond expected. :blob_sweat:

So those definitely hooked people in to keep reading. That's the good stuff.

But, again, it's like I've already read this before; The Philosopher's Stone. I feel as if I already know what is gonna happen. That's why I find Nat being the only interesting thing in the story, so far. Like, we got the train scene, again as mentioned with the sorting, classes, once more about the troll, our nice mirror, and even Quidditch. That's what I got from the first couple of your handful of chapters; it's predictable.

I dunno if I want to suggest this, but maybe you wanna consider subverting the outcomes a little more? Like... okay, do you want to maybe double up on Nat's divergence? She's already the main attraction, but I dunno if it is the right call to make her stand out more by breaking the canonical storyline. Reason I don't know if it is good advice to suggest that is because it could also destroy the consistency you've got going on.

Oh, wait. Maybe this is a better idea: give us more of Nat's personal worldviews that clashes with the new norms. We already know what the laws are, how mortality and death are like around the wizarding world, but we could get more of that from her viewpoint on how she's taking it in. That'd be interesting.

Also, I know why you're summarizing weeks of classes. It has been done in the canonical book, but maybe we could also get a glimpse inside her head as she's experiencing it in real time. Things like the social drift or Snape's own harassment... even the research sessions might be interesting to read about from her because this is new experience for Nat. Does that make sense?

Reason I bring that up is because I'm getting a bit jarred when you focused on Malfoy's confrontation. I get why, but the tone of dramatizing it and not other elements leaves me to feel like the world, as is, isn't that big of a deal.

How about this? You could have Tabitha maybe suspect something. That'll attract dual interest. A new hook with a subplot where Nat isn't sure what Tabitha maybe noticed or became aware of in some random moment. Maybe Nat experienced a charm failing that nearly reveals something about her in front of Tabby? Or perhaps she noticed some rando Slytherin confrontation in public was oddly handled? Something like that... I don't want to push you into forcing things into your story because it is your story, so only take these as suggestions and think them over. Don't feel as if you have to do this to make your story better.

Again, these are my opinions.

Looking back up at your request, you mentioned being concerned about being minimalistic? What specifically is your concerns about it? I can't reliably give you feedback on it when I don't know the actual issues you see in it, know what I mean?

I'll give you an example: you got good scenes, and I see what is going on, so you are conveying your vision. What I have an issue with is that it's functional, not atmospheric. You got the scenes anchored, great. It's emotional with plenty of internal reactions rather than simply scenery. But that also looks like in my head as props moving around a stage. I'm talking about when stating a room looks nice, or that the food is edible, or something about the match being loud.

Yeah, I got that, but I don't experience it. How are they like that? Do you see where I am coming from on this point? How about I make an example by including sensory: we got that the Slytherin dorms are dim and cool, but maybe if you include light that is filtered through greenish lake water, an illumination that's distorting the shadows across the stone ceiling. See that? That's sensory because now we can see why it's dim and cool.

Don't confuse that by being more descriptive; just be specific. Ambiguity is nice for some things, but scenes, when you are writing them, we need to know where to look, otherwise we're just skimming over it until we're back onto something that does catch our interest. And, so far, the dialogue is probably where my attention has been the most.

Yeah, let's get into that now. Remember that I said Nat is the most interesting character? She is. She's rather dry, but in a literal sense with an alien ethical code whenever she is calmly confronting others. That's gets me interested in seeing how that turns out like with Tabitha in the library or whenever we got a glimpse of vulnerability from confronting Malfoy.

Something that I do whenever I create dialogue is that I fragment it. I'm not suggesting you should, but maybe you should experiment sometime with it. What I mean is instead of having someone explain everything in one go, break it up with the other person interrupting for clarification on some term or place or time or whatever that they themselves can't keep following until that point is defined. Something like that might help make the characters be more lively.

Speaking of lively, the lived-in experience of the canonical world. Right now, I don't think your issue is with pacing or grammar or whatever. I feel like it is the direction you are taking it in. When I read it, it's less of a story of discovery and more like a retelling on one I've already read. That's what I'd focus on changing. Emphasis on me here. You do what you enjoy, just keep what I've said in mind as you continue to write, okay? :blob_okay:
 

Not_A_Fis

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Much appreciated. Okay... so, I am gonna start with the fact that I'm not entirely a fan of GL fics. Dunno why. It's not like I hate them, just can't get into them as much as I would others that revolve around different themes. Who knows... but that is derailing away from what you wanna hear, so let's get into that.

You got some good control over the tone of the setting; it's consistent and Nat's got some logic backing her up. Also, that mirror scene? Pretty cool. And I'm glad the chapters are rather short, personally. I'm still not all there up in my head from yesterday. :sweat_smile:

But there is a small issue I'm seeing. Maybe it is just me? Actually, it probably is me who sees this as an issue. You see, Natalie is the only person I'm really interested in. The rest of the world? Meh, I've read it already; you're following canon. That's probably why it is keeping its consistency so very well.

Okay, like, you got your prologue from 1990, then start things off in London. Got it. We have the major events, such as the sorting, that troll, our beloved mirror, and we start getting into the social outcomes. Again, I really liked the mirror scene.

Now, the troll put on some legal aspects I never considered. That's pretty cool. The moral stuff? Yeah, I already had those in my mind, but didn't consider the former. Nice call on putting that in there. :blobthumbsup:

You got the conflict with Snape going on. I ain't going to poke around that because this is expected; who isn't gonna be that way around him? And, hell, Malfoy... yeah, that was beyond expected. :blob_sweat:

So those definitely hooked people in to keep reading. That's the good stuff.

But, again, it's like I've already read this before; The Philosopher's Stone. I feel as if I already know what is gonna happen. That's why I find Nat being the only interesting thing in the story, so far. Like, we got the train scene, again as mentioned with the sorting, classes, once more about the troll, our nice mirror, and even Quidditch. That's what I got from the first couple of your handful of chapters; it's predictable.

I dunno if I want to suggest this, but maybe you wanna consider subverting the outcomes a little more? Like... okay, do you want to maybe double up on Nat's divergence? She's already the main attraction, but I dunno if it is the right call to make her stand out more by breaking the canonical storyline. Reason I don't know if it is good advice to suggest that is because it could also destroy the consistency you've got going on.

Oh, wait. Maybe this is a better idea: give us more of Nat's personal worldviews that clashes with the new norms. We already know what the laws are, how mortality and death are like around the wizarding world, but we could get more of that from her viewpoint on how she's taking it in. That'd be interesting.

Also, I know why you're summarizing weeks of classes. It has been done in the canonical book, but maybe we could also get a glimpse inside her head as she's experiencing it in real time. Things like the social drift or Snape's own harassment... even the research sessions might be interesting to read about from her because this is new experience for Nat. Does that make sense?

Reason I bring that up is because I'm getting a bit jarred when you focused on Malfoy's confrontation. I get why, but the tone of dramatizing it and not other elements leaves me to feel like the world, as is, isn't that big of a deal.

How about this? You could have Tabitha maybe suspect something. That'll attract dual interest. A new hook with a subplot where Nat isn't sure what Tabitha maybe noticed or became aware of in some random moment. Maybe Nat experienced a charm failing that nearly reveals something about her in front of Tabby? Or perhaps she noticed some rando Slytherin confrontation in public was oddly handled? Something like that... I don't want to push you into forcing things into your story because it is your story, so only take these as suggestions and think them over. Don't feel as if you have to do this to make your story better.

Again, these are my opinions.

Looking back up at your request, you mentioned being concerned about being minimalistic? What specifically is your concerns about it? I can't reliably give you feedback on it when I don't know the actual issues you see in it, know what I mean?

I'll give you an example: you got good scenes, and I see what is going on, so you are conveying your vision. What I have an issue with is that it's functional, not atmospheric. You got the scenes anchored, great. It's emotional with plenty of internal reactions rather than simply scenery. But that also looks like in my head as props moving around a stage. I'm talking about when stating a room looks nice, or that the food is edible, or something about the match being loud.

Yeah, I got that, but I don't experience it. How are they like that? Do you see where I am coming from on this point? How about I make an example by including sensory: we got that the Slytherin dorms are dim and cool, but maybe if you include light that is filtered through greenish lake water, an illumination that's distorting the shadows across the stone ceiling. See that? That's sensory because now we can see why it's dim and cool.

Don't confuse that by being more descriptive; just be specific. Ambiguity is nice for some things, but scenes, when you are writing them, we need to know where to look, otherwise we're just skimming over it until we're back onto something that does catch our interest. And, so far, the dialogue is probably where my attention has been the most.

Yeah, let's get into that now. Remember that I said Nat is the most interesting character? She is. She's rather dry, but in a literal sense with an alien ethical code whenever she is calmly confronting others. That's gets me interested in seeing how that turns out like with Tabitha in the library or whenever we got a glimpse of vulnerability from confronting Malfoy.

Something that I do whenever I create dialogue is that I fragment it. I'm not suggesting you should, but maybe you should experiment sometime with it. What I mean is instead of having someone explain everything in one go, break it up with the other person interrupting for clarification on some term or place or time or whatever that they themselves can't keep following until that point is defined. Something like that might help make the characters be more lively.

Speaking of lively, the lived-in experience of the canonical world. Right now, I don't think your issue is with pacing or grammar or whatever. I feel like it is the direction you are taking it in. When I read it, it's less of a story of discovery and more like a retelling on one I've already read. That's what I'd focus on changing. Emphasis on me here. You do what you enjoy, just keep what I've said in mind as you continue to write, okay? :blob_okay:
Thank you! You've actually identified exactly the things I was worried about, and I think your perspective will help me fix them at least a little.

1. the Characters:
To be honest, even while writing I felt like I was neglecting them. I rationalised it away; the story's from Natalie's perspective, and she didn't have anything to do with the main cast at the start, plus they don't have any classes together except Potions.

That was stupid of me; she could've been shown interacting with others to better show her perspectives (although I won't give any more clues about her background, I've already exceeded my outline's plan on that quite a bit, and I don't want to spoil the mystery too early). I could've simply made it so that she had more classes together with the main cast. My outline already includes a PoV switch scene much later on, so I also could've included those. I was too scared of diverging from canon too much to dare to make my story more original...

Even though writing something that's just a retelling is, like, the cardinal sin of fanfiction. I should maybe mention that I'm not actually a Harry Potter fan; I've just read it a few too many times as a kid, and I felt the need to process that away somehow. And since I have plans for about 60 different original stories lying around, which I will never finish because I keep getting distracted, I thought - what if I start with something really easy, to practice persistency and show myself that I can do it? The easiest thing to write seemed to be a fanfiction that follows the original, just with extra characters and a little twist.

But I still want to write an actually original story, so I'll rewrite my chapters - more "close-up" scenes, maybe a few PoV switches, anything to make the story feel more alive and the support cast more interesting.

2. Functional, not atmospheric:
This is exactly what I meant by "minimalist descriptions". I'm autistic and have trouble processing sensory experiences, including picturing things in my head visually, so I tend to only write about people's mental and emotional reactions. This is a bit harder to fix (otherwise the problem wouldn't exist in the first place, I was aware of it after all), but I'll try my best.

3. Dialogue:
I confess that I absolutely hate writing dialogue. It's so hard for me, and I have no idea how people actually talk. If I wrote the way the dialogues happen in my head, everyone would be robots lecturing at each other. Hooray autism.

Be that as it may, I think this point may be already fixed by taking care of the other two - more sensory descriptions/show don't tell, more participation from the other characters - this should make the current and to-be-added dialogues a bit more lively.

Once again, thanks a lot for your feedback, it's been a tremendous help!
Even if I'm due a rewrite now, I'm extremely glad you brought me to that conclusion now, rather than after I'm already like two dozen chapters in.
 

L1aei

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Thank you! You've actually identified exactly the things I was worried about, and I think your perspective will help me fix them at least a little.

1. the Characters:
To be honest, even while writing I felt like I was neglecting them. I rationalised it away; the story's from Natalie's perspective, and she didn't have anything to do with the main cast at the start, plus they don't have any classes together except Potions.

That was stupid of me; she could've been shown interacting with others to better show her perspectives (although I won't give any more clues about her background, I've already exceeded my outline's plan on that quite a bit, and I don't want to spoil the mystery too early). I could've simply made it so that she had more classes together with the main cast. My outline already includes a PoV switch scene much later on, so I also could've included those. I was too scared of diverging from canon too much to dare to make my story more original...

Even though writing something that's just a retelling is, like, the cardinal sin of fanfiction. I should maybe mention that I'm not actually a Harry Potter fan; I've just read it a few too many times as a kid, and I felt the need to process that away somehow. And since I have plans for about 60 different original stories lying around, which I will never finish because I keep getting distracted, I thought - what if I start with something really easy, to practice persistency and show myself that I can do it? The easiest thing to write seemed to be a fanfiction that follows the original, just with extra characters and a little twist.

But I still want to write an actually original story, so I'll rewrite my chapters - more "close-up" scenes, maybe a few PoV switches, anything to make the story feel more alive and the support cast more interesting.

2. Functional, not atmospheric:
This is exactly what I meant by "minimalist descriptions". I'm autistic and have trouble processing sensory experiences, including picturing things in my head visually, so I tend to only write about people's mental and emotional reactions. This is a bit harder to fix (otherwise the problem wouldn't exist in the first place, I was aware of it after all), but I'll try my best.

3. Dialogue:
I confess that I absolutely hate writing dialogue. It's so hard for me, and I have no idea how people actually talk. If I wrote the way the dialogues happen in my head, everyone would be robots lecturing at each other. Hooray autism.

Be that as it may, I think this point may be already fixed by taking care of the other two - more sensory descriptions/show don't tell, more participation from the other characters - this should make the current and to-be-added dialogues a bit more lively.

Once again, thanks a lot for your feedback, it's been a tremendous help!
Even if I'm due a rewrite now, I'm extremely glad you brought me to that conclusion now, rather than after I'm already like two dozen chapters in.

Glad I could guide ya on a path. Remember, just have fun with your writing; it's an enjoyable process because you also get to learn while making up all sorts of stuff on the fly. Best of luck to ya! :blob_salute:
 

Not_A_Fis

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(If anyone's stumbling into this thread after now: I've finished the rewrite in the meantime. It ended up being not that extensive, but it should make everything a little more immersive, I hope. If you think the problems L1aei pointed out are still too present, please make some concrete suggestions how to improve them if you can, because I've arrived at the limit of my meager literary abilities. Thank you!)
 
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