Kingdom building problems

CheertheSecond

The second coming of CheertheDead
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Straight to the issues.

A kingdom or sovereign territory needs to ensure the livelihood of the people. This is the foundation of a kingdom. Even assuming the territory has few people and can use automata to replace a large portion of the workforce, the remained people still have needs.

Material needs for them are: food, shelters and safety.

Food requires farming so a suitable land is crucial. If you want to farm on a floating asteroid, you will need to meet many requirements of the crops from sunlight, gravity, air, water, nutrients and disease treatment.

Accommodation needs fuels to keep most lifesupport systems function. It also needs materials for expansion or maintenance.

Safety will have a lot to do with military, disease control and other well-being problem. All of these requires facilities, materials, fuels and experts.


My protag is not the most extrovert kind of guy and he is pretty much a loser. Diplomacy may not be the most believable way to help him meet his kingdom's needs.

I want to keep plot armour and convenient luck to the bare minimum. Anyone has any idea?
 

Alski

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No one wants his shitty little rock because its in some backwater galaxy.
 

Avarice_Of_The_Seven

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You need to note that it all depends on the novel, you don't absolutely need to think about the solution of every problem in a completely functional kingdom if your story doesn't explore that part in depth. It only needs to sound logically convincing even though the territory might note make sense in some aspects. Because the truth is that even most long running novels don't completely explore their world system in complete depth. You can just leave a part out that you can't force into making sense if that isn't relevant to the story and most likely wouldn't be explored or revealed.

But if you can still need to fix those problems then you can just twist your narrative or lore history to give your territory logical backing. for example, if there are resources needed or protection from something needed in your territory and you can't find way to give that logical flaw a fix then you can just slightly the history of your kingdom to something like: The current location of the kingdom solves these problems (if the kingdom needs resources then the land is uniquely abundant in that resource, and if the territory needs protection then the terrain itself bars and guards against the foes)
This might make the setting feel plot convenient but if you add a history like; -the kingdom was established in this exact location because it had this and that benefits- then it will instead feel the most logical.


I will give you my own example as reference:-

when I was doing a logic check against my world map then there was this inconsistency. The Empire dominated almost the entire south. but the south generally have most resources and fertile lands, It didn't make sense for an empire that exist in the south to be stuck in a deadlock with other nations. The empire should be overwhelmingly strong due to it's location.
I added a setting that there are a lot of political conflict between powerful noble families of the empire and the imperial family so the empire can't act with complete unity and this reduces it's power.
But this setting felt too narratively convenient so I added a history to make it all logical; There were previously a lot of small kingdoms in the south because of it's abundant lands and rich resources, one kingdom became unusually powerful and began conquering the the other nations, which eventually created the current empire. The royal families of the conquered kingdoms were accepted as nobility at the time since the new empire had too much territory but no governing body and the royal families could quickly stabilize the masses of their own territories. and these noble families are those past royals that were forced to bend their knee before the empire in the past and are still resentful towards the imperial family.

Now everything made sense and there were no settings that just felt convenient.
 
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CheertheSecond

The second coming of CheertheDead
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You need to note that it all depends on the novel, you don't absolutely need to think about the solution of every problem in a completely functional kingdom if your story doesn't explore that part in depth. It only needs to sound logically convincing even though the territory might note make sense in some aspects. Because the truth is that even most long running novels don't completely explore their world system in complete depth. You can just leave a part out that you can't force into making sense if that isn't relevant to the story and most likely wouldn't be explored or revealed.

But if you can still need to fix those problems then you can just twist your narrative or lore history to give your territory logical backing. for example, if there are resources needed or protection from something needed in your territory and you can't find way to give that logical flaw a fix then you can just slightly the history of your kingdom to something like: The current location of the kingdom solves these problems (if the kingdom needs resources then the land is uniquely abundant in that resource, and if the territory needs protection then the terrain itself bars and guards against the foes)
This might make the setting feel plot convenient but if you add a history like; -the kingdom was established in this exact location because it had this and that benefits- then it will instead feel the most logical.


I will give you my own example as reference:-

when I was doing a logic check against my world map then there was this inconsistency. The Empire dominated almost the entire south. but the south generally have most resources and fertile lands, It didn't make sense for an empire that exist in the south to be stuck in a deadlock with other nations. The empire should be overwhelmingly strong due to it's location.
I added a setting that there are a lot of political conflict between powerful noble families of the empire and the imperial family so the empire can't act with complete unity and this reduces it's power.
But this setting felt too narratively convenient so I added a history to make it all logical; There were previously a lot of small kingdoms in the south because of it's abundant lands and rich resources, one kingdom became unusually powerful and began conquering the the other nations, which eventually created the current kingdom. The royal families of the conquered kingdoms were accepted as nobility at the time since the new empire had too much territory but no governing body and the royal families could quickly stabilize the masses of their own territories. and these noble families are those past royals that were forced to bend their knee before the empire in the past and are still resentful towards the imperial family.

Now everything made sense and there were no settings that just felt convenient.


So the setting for my novel is like this:

Many millennia into the future. Human civilisation fractured into multiple large territories. The large countries had 100 to near 4000 super worlds (planets with population above 6 billion). This is not counting minor worlds, space stations, outposts, drifting colony ships, etc.

Protag is a very trashy person. His mom is trash too. Cruel, arrogant, greedy nobles. After a failed attempt to kill protag's siblings from another consort, he and his mom were kicked out in disgrace. All the people they offended ensured the mother and son lived a hellish life before the mom died in a winter. The survived protag had a change of heart after years of living outside and he regretted his and his mom's past actions so he tried to redo his life.

Typically, a purposeless loser tried to live like a decent person while wrestling with his regret. Long story short, he met and made friend with a bio-commodity (humanoid creations for entertainment and labour purposes). He wanted a purpose to live and the bio-commodities wanted freedom. That's the gist.

Some special thing in this universe. New intervention of divine demonic entities to the human civilisation (not to the point of physical manifestation but they can empower some worshippers to become building bursters).

Another special thing is rifts to other planes where rift creatures come to wreck havoc on the real universe.

Going through the rift and training against otherworldly creatures allow one a chance of awakening special power.

The last anomaly is objects from other worlds pop irregularly into the real universe through one-way short-life unstable portals.

Major challenges for my protag are 1) he can't go under radar very easily, 2) no supernatural intervention can topple a space fleet, 3) his special abilities from his demonic entity and rift talents are mid so direct independence or establishment of colony is very dangerous, 4) protag doesn't see himself as something worth the respect and 5) people with major power see protag and his bio-commodities as doormats or bottom feeders.

Most of the issues have solution pointing to being stealthy but it is very difficult to do so in a universe where there are a lot of control to not let unclaimed profit slip through the fingers. If you have something precious but no ability to protect your interest, others will either steal or force you to agree with a bad deal.
 
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MFontana

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Straight to the issues.

A kingdom or sovereign territory needs to ensure the livelihood of the people. This is the foundation of a kingdom. Even assuming the territory has few people and can use automata to replace a large portion of the workforce, the remained people still have needs.

Material needs for them are: food, shelters and safety.

Food requires farming so a suitable land is crucial. If you want to farm on a floating asteroid, you will need to meet many requirements of the crops from sunlight, gravity, air, water, nutrients and disease treatment.

Accommodation needs fuels to keep most lifesupport systems function. It also needs materials for expansion or maintenance.

Safety will have a lot to do with military, disease control and other well-being problem. All of these requires facilities, materials, fuels and experts.


My protag is not the most extrovert kind of guy and he is pretty much a loser. Diplomacy may not be the most believable way to help him meet his kingdom's needs.

I want to keep plot armour and convenient luck to the bare minimum. Anyone has any idea?
Competent advisors and "support staff".
I'd highly advise checking out the Kingmaker rules from the Pathfinder adventure. They'll give you a solid rundown of the different roles, positions, and responsibilities when it comes to building, and managing, a kingdom.
You can decide how to incorporate those elements yourself, but in this case, the most prominent would be a Herald (high position in the Royal Court, not covered in those rules. Announce arrival, and first-interaction with visiting dignitaries), Envoy (not covered explicitly in the rules. Also called Ambassadors) - Someone who administers direct negotiation with foreign rulers on behalf of the King/Monarch. and Counselor, a position tasked with administering the interactions between the subjects and the monarch/ruler. They often carry grievances to the monarch, and deliver word on the monarch's decision to the subjects, aside from serious matters requiring the direct intervention of the Monarch.

While you don't actively have to worry about the rules themselves, you can get an idea of the different support roles involved, and have competent characters filling those roles whose skills complement the ones possessed by the leader.
IE: An Ambassador will generally be very eloquent, and more than capable of handling diplomatic matters where the monarch may be more... direct.

Archives of Nethys - Pathfinder 1e Kingmaker Roles
 

ConansWitchBaby

Da Scalie Whisperer
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Specialization. Instead of being a Jack of All Trades have the "commodities" support with their own specializations too. Then have someone that aligns with your protag's goals; they can take over the logistics.
 

CharlesEBrown

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If your MC needs to practice diplomacy but is not a diplomat, force one on him. Either an arranged marriage, a follower with a gift, or an outsider who may have his best interests at heart ... or may not. Someone who can handle that task (and add plot complications) is easier than suddenly giving him a skill (or having him muddle through and have "fate" fix things).
 

CheertheSecond

The second coming of CheertheDead
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If your MC needs to practice diplomacy but is not a diplomat, force one on him. Either an arranged marriage, a follower with a gift, or an outsider who may have his best interests at heart ... or may not. Someone who can handle that task (and add plot complications) is easier than suddenly giving him a skill (or having him muddle through and have "fate" fix things).


Marriage is not really possible. People with power wouldn't lower themselves to marry their females to a rumourly reported scum. I don't think his networking can include powerful people.
 

CharlesEBrown

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Marriage is not really possible. People with power wouldn't lower themselves to marry their females to a rumourly reported scum. I don't think his networking can include powerful people.
You'd be surprised - if he's up-and-coming (or if there's some obscure little prophecy that MIGHT be about him somewhere out there) low end nobles will fall all over themselves to get a piece of the pie. But it could also be part of a condition of surrender (either way) or assistance (Marry our princess and we'll help you in the war. Refuse and we'll join your enemies")
 
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