I just want to vent

[Jemini]

I think this explains my frustration well. I've looked at some isekai on this site, and it was just a shower of the MC getting what they wanted.

No fear of not being able to get back home. No grief at separation from their family and friends, and no uneasiness at the strange elements of this new world.

Obviously this isn't ever isekai here, as I had only a small sampling, but it really was not my cup of tea. It does not feel relatable, and it doesn't really spark a meaningful conflict for me.

Of course that's all my opinion.

This is where I think learning how to appreciate literature, and by appreciate I mean understand everything behind it and realize exactly what people are doing whether they are consciously aware of it or not, can do a LOT in terms of improving your writing.

This means learning the history of the genre, as I just laid out with the portal fantasy genre and the rather recently developed Isekai sub-genre that was born from it. Knowing this history, knowing the trends, knowing what has worked for it in the past, and knowing the original inspirations for the things you see in the genre today are all things that can help you see what's possible.

In terms of Isekai in particular, I think the biggest problem is that what we are seeing are imitations of imitations of imitations of Mushuko Tensei, and a lot of them have even lost the thread that Mushoku Tensei gave them. For one thing, just drawing from that one source is already SEVERELY limiting yourself. And then, the fact that modern day examples have even failed to grasp what made their relatively recent common ancestor successful means they just don't have any kind of spark in their series to start with.

At least drawing from something further back than MT can be helpful. MT in turn drew from lots of tired and dried out sources that were imitations of imitations of SAO, which was inspired (wittingly or unwittingly) by .hack//sign, which was inspired by a combination of Tron and Digimon, which was inspired by the lineage of Western portal fantasies that I went over in my last post. There's a pretty rich history to draw from.

Simply understanding the lineage of a genre can do a great deal to expand your view on the possibilities. The reason I know all the stuff I said above is because I researched it when I started writing in the genre.

I didn't stop at the portal fantasy genre either. I also looked into the general fantasy genre. Original sources on Elves and Gnomes are pretty interesting. Dwarves mostly look pretty similar to modern day portrayals, but modern portrayals of Elves have de-fanged them from their original malevolent nature by A LOT, and the Gnomes just got nerffed. The original Gnomes were the elemental spirits of earth, and were essentially supercharged earthbenders on magical steroids. Nowdays, portrayals of Gnomes just focus in on their small size and make that their only characteristic, stripping them of the insane powers over the earth that the original lore gave them.

 

[WasatchWind]

I didn't stop at the portal fantasy genre either. I also looked into the general fantasy genre. Original sources on Elves and Gnomes are pretty interesting. Dwarves mostly look pretty similar to modern day portrayals, but modern portrayals of Elves have de-fanged them from their original malevolent nature by A LOT, and the Gnomes just got nerffed. The original Gnomes were the elemental spirits of earth, and were essentially supercharged earthbenders on magical steroids. Nowdays, portrayals of Gnomes just focus in on their small size and make that their only characteristic, stripping them of the insane powers over the earth that the original lore gave them.

I've done some research into the history and different folklore of merfolk for my story. While I found it interesting, I'm not sure if much of it has informed me on what I'm writing. It's kind of a bit more of the modern depiction of merfolk that I am looking at, a bit of a response to that.

Though there are stories describing both men and women of the sea going back centuries and even further, in more modern times, it has become more increasingly focused on mermaids, to the point that many people today will refer to a male aquatic humanoid as a mermaid.

While Disney's The Little Mermaid, in my opinion, didn't really present merfolk as being more feminine or masculine, the type of movie was considered more targeted towards girls to many (despite it being absolutely awesome in both music and animation). Following this, film, TV, and literature, progressively made merpeople an exclusively girl thing. For them to not be considered as such, they either need to have barely aquatic features, or be grotesque and monstrous.

So you have a stupid pendulum effect between sparkly barbie mermaids and big dark scary monsters. I just want merfolk depicted as a race of people, neither inherently cheerful or inherently dark and creepy. They do good and bad.

I do hear some people offer exceptions to this cultural view - but of course, considering that the average person on the street would say merpeople are for girls, things clearly haven't changed.

 

[Deleted member 45782]

I didn't stop at the portal fantasy genre either. I also looked into the general fantasy genre. Original sources on Elves and Gnomes are pretty interesting. The original Gnomes were the elemental spirits of earth, and were essentially supercharged earthbenders on magical steroids. Nowdays, portrayals of Gnomes just focus in on their small size and make that their only characteristic, stripping them of the insane powers over the earth that the original lore gave them.

Just wondering are red caps different from gnomes?

I've done some research into the history and different folklore of merfolk for my story. While I found it interesting, I'm not sure if much of it has informed me on what I'm writing. It's kind of a bit more of the modern depiction of merfolk that I am looking at, a bit of a response to that.

Though there are stories describing both men and women of the sea going back centuries and even further, in more modern times, it has become more increasingly focused on mermaids, to the point that many people today will refer to a male aquatic humanoid as a mermaid.

Thats pretty interesting. I have mostly read mermaids depicted as females in the past (sailors and potentially seals) but also heard some stories about mermen. Would be interesting to hear more about it. I do know some kid stories where it was about merfolk.

 

[Jemini]

Just wondering are red caps different from gnomes?

Red caps are from an entirely different lore than gnomes. Gnomes are from something called renaissance magic, a type of fortune telling out of the renaissance period. The spirits of the 4 elements held a pretty important place in renaissance magic. Salamander for fire, Jin for wind, and gnome for earth (I can't quite remember what the water spirit was. I am wanting to say Undine, but I don't know if that's just me getting thrown and confused by a lot of video games that reference these elemental spirits. I'm also wanting to say nymph.) These 4 types of elemental spirits had a great deal of importance within their respective element. Later on, gnomes got confused with something called totems, small carvings of people that someone would put in their yards in order to ward off evil spirits. Due to gnomes being described by their small size that was almost the exact height of a totem, people started calling their totems gnomes. Yes, this was the origin of lawn gnomes.

Red caps are from English folk lore, and they are considered a type of very very evil fairy. The reason why their caps are red is because their caps are constantly soaked in the blood of their victims. They actually have to keep killing, because if the blood that soaks their cap ever dries out then they die. (This is the same folk lore that came up with dulihans, which are also a type of fairy. Actually, if any two fantasy creatures are similar, dulihans and red caps are quite different on a superficial level but in terms of their vicious nature the two are actually incredibly similar.)

EDIT: Oh, while we are on the subject of English folklore, another piece of lore that has gotten SEVERELY twisted by comparison to it's original portrayal are banshees. Today, we have come to think of banshees as something evil. So, it might surprise you to learn that, in their original lore, a banshee was supposed to be a guardian spirit. A banshee would protect all the members of a family from all evil or harm that would come to them, and she would deeply love and care for all the members of the family. Due to a banshee's guardian power, she has the ability to sense if a member of the household she guards is in distress or danger of dying. And, if she senses that a member of the family she protects is going to die and it is out of her power to prevent it, she grieves for them by crying and wailing.

Of course, this lore has gotten warped in popular culture today and people just heard the association between the wailing and it preceding death and decided to cast a banshee in a similar light to the more malevolent dulahans.

 

[KyoruS]

Artists will always have to face the eternal compromise between sharing our own vision versus catering to an audience.

Choosing one over the other is neither an improvement or a fall.

Finding our values as an artist, and articulate them to light our path is necessary to protect our determination to work on a project.

I am a weak writer that crave for readers, so I chose the easy way. (It's totally not just to draw big tiddies girls )

You can see the same in social media with hypersexualization. People that find success with content that value them as an object (and averting them from blooming other aspects of their identity).

That's similar to the thinking process of "oh I'll give up everything that is genuine in my original story and I'll just satisfy people with isekai and smut because I value the number of readers more than the expression of my inner self." And that's fucking tragic and deserves your rage and frustration.

But, stepping forward with unwavering faith against the currents, the unhelpful criticisms or the norms are hallmarks of an artist. And that is an honorable and respectable thing to do.

I'm not saying that artists should push through without paying mind to anything. Because what was logical, valuable, felt a month ago might not be true anymore.

Now then, you just wanted to vent. But a lot of people might interpret that as a "call for help".

So, let me just give you a pat on the back. You are doing something true to you, and that's valuable in itself, and I'm fucking frustrated that my SFW chapters have a lot less reads than my NSFW chapter. Fuck me sideways too.

You're welcome.

Ps: I'm joking, I'm not mad that people read the nsfw chapters more.

I heavily agree on this one. There’s a need for balance when ewriting to explore what you want to write as a writer and catering to your readers or audience.

It’s just so happens what I want to write co-aligns with the majority of readers and audience in this platform. Smut and Isekai. The double combo to get on trending.

But rather than going full stereotype on the overused genre. I write my story the way I want it, without holding back on the topic that I want to explore. Depression, inferiority complex and power dynamic between a lord and a servant.

This leads to the MC following the classic of being a depressed beta character, which gets tons of comments and hate from the readers. But that doesn’t stop me on writing what I want.

Thankfully, though with what some readers mention as careful execution and decent writing on the overused genre with a great twist. My story got a decent following.

 

[Deleted member 45782]

Red caps are from an entirely different lore than gnomes. Gnomes are from something called renaissance magic, a type of fortune telling out of the renaissance period. The spirits of the 4 elements held a pretty important place in renaissance magic. Salamander for fire, Jin for wind, and gnome for earth (I can't quite remember what the water spirit was. I am wanting to say Undine, but I don't know if that's just me getting thrown and confused by a lot of video games that reference these elemental spirits. I'm also wanting to say nymph.) These 4 types of elemental spirits had a great deal of importance within their respective element. Later on, gnomes got confused with something called totems, small carvings of people that someone would put in their yards in order to ward off evil spirits. Due to gnomes being described by their small size that was almost the exact height of a totem, people started calling their totems gnomes. Yes, this was the origin of lawn gnomes.

Red caps are from English folk lore, and they are considered a type of very very evil fairy. The reason why their caps are red is because their caps are constantly soaked in the blood of their victims. They actually have to keep killing, because if the blood that soaks their cap ever dries out then they die. (This is the same folk lore that came up with dulihans, which are also a type of fairy. Actually, if any two fantasy creatures are similar, dulihans and red caps are quite different on a superficial level but in terms of their vicious nature the two are actually incredibly similar.)

EDIT: Oh, while we are on the subject of English folklore, another piece of lore that has gotten SEVERELY twisted by comparison to it's original portrayal are banshees. Today, we have come to think of banshees as something evil. So, it might surprise you to learn that, in their original lore, a banshee was supposed to be a guardian spirit. A banshee would protect all the members of a family from all evil or harm that would come to them, and she would deeply love and care for all the members of the family. Due to a banshee's guardian power, she has the ability to sense if a member of the household she guards is in distress or danger of dying. And, if she senses that a member of the family she protects is going to die and it is out of her power to prevent it, she grieves for them by crying and wailing.

Of course, this lore has gotten warped in popular culture today and people just heard the association between the wailing and it preceding death and decided to cast a banshee in a similar light to the more malevolent dulahans.

Ah i see. Pretty cool. I remember reading red caps from Julie Kagawa's Iron Fey and reading more about their caps soaked in blood. Always wondered if they were different from gnomes or it was an earlier version of what gnomes were once known for.

The fae are pretty interesting to research on. ;)

 

[RavensDagger]

I did have a thought. I have presented quite a bit about how I might do things, but how about looking at the work of a writer I consider FAR better than myself?

The Agartha Loop [Old Version]

They asked Amber to become a magical girl three times. She refused. That only made her more interesting. The fourth time, she asked them.

www.scribblehub.com

This thing manages to achieve a LOT with a little. Part of the secret here in what @RavensDagger is doing is that between his' cover, title, and synopsis, the three are actually covering for each other and working in synergy. It is also working off of pop culture to supplement even more information.

The synopsis establishes we are working with magical girls. Anyone dealing with magical girl content in the modern day simply can't help but think of Madoka Magica, which had a heavy theme of time-travel. The story has "loop" in the name. This association is all you need to get in your head that there's going to be something time-travel related.

Finally, they synopsis gives an in-world perspective from a POV that would require you to know a thing or two about some characters in the story, namely the "cute creature" that gives the magical girls their powers. If you have read the story, it makes perfect sense that you are talking from the perspective of someone talking about the "cute creature" here.

This packs in even more information into fewer words. Also, it does not answer every question, and is a little trollish. Not a single word of that synopsis is inaccurate, but taking all the little snippets of information you gather together from these little details, it will lead you down some very wrong paths as to what actually goes on. However, that doesn't matter. It did not actually lie to you, and the fake plot you probably imagined in your mind was likely interesting enough to get you reading.

These are some really high-level writing techniques @RavensDagger is using to get across a lot more information with fewer words. The cover art is also playing into the theme of giving fairly little information up front, but packing in a LOT of meaning that all becomes relevant and something you can analyze and parse apart as you start to read it. However, even when you haven't got any information yet, the bright red color of that circle drawn around the MC's face in the picture manages to pull this little mind-trick.

"Loop? And there's a circle there."

Every last detail about the synergy between these 3 aspects plays little tricks on the subconscious of the person viewing it. On first glance, it manages to use a lot of aspects of forced perspective to guide the prospective reader's thoughts in such a way that they really don't care about the fact they are not given much information, they are still interested.

A large part of this trick actually IS the fact that there is a lot of withheld hidden meaning to all of it that you have to read the story in order to understand. Your brain can sense those unresolved gaps in information, and it doesn't like it. It wants those answers, so you want more information so you can fill in those gaps. This is especially true when you can already almost answer a lot of those questions just by analyzing what's given to you without reading it in the first place.

A lot of the unfilled information also comes from outside sources. The cover art is designed like a personal add you put up on a bulletin board. The title uses the word "Agartha," which is a name for an underground city in Western Esotericism. (Have you ever heard the word "esoteric?" Well, the religion called "Western Esotericism" is where the word came from.) So, that's more borrowing from outside sources that adds to the itch in your brain. And, of course there is the Madoka Magica link it makes with the synopsis.

I could go deep into analyzing any of the three aspects there, but unearthing the reasons behind it is not the point. The point is the very fact I'm ABLE to unearth this much information from so little in the first place without having ever read the story, and still have every single last scrap of information presented as well as information derived all be relevant to the story. That's the true mastery of what's going on and why it makes for such an effective synergy between the three.

I wasn't expecting to stumble across this.

Thanks, I think? It's mostly... I don't know? Years of experience?

Something like that! Anyway, thanks!