How far to push a story, and when to pivot to a new one?

[TimBaril]

I get the impression that many of the financial successes in serial fiction explode out of the box thanks to a good launch. Slow growth is rarer?

I'm trying to figure out if I can make something out of what I have or if I should start fresh. The objective is to gain a Patreon following.

I have multiple stories on SHub, WP, and RR. All books have at least one novel in length (100k+).

Combined followers on platforms:

• Pirate's Life has 380 followers and had 4 supporters on Patreon before I paused writing because it didn't seem like I was earning enough to justify it after writing an entire novel.
• World of Fantasy has 125 followers and 3 supporters on Patreon.
• The other two didn't generate any supporters.

Ratings are pretty decent on all stories.

I had a lot of commentary on Pirates on RR, and I think it's because I was leaving author comments under chapters. Other books are not generating the same interaction.

Mistakes:

• I never "properly" launched these online to get that initial boost of visibility. I started writing them before learning that a designed launch could be really helpful. That likely prevented early growth.
• I have paused releasing chapters at times, which would obviously slow growth. But I did it because I didn't think I was getting enough growth to warrant it.
• I may not have had good covers.

Question: Is it worth continuing to try to grow these stories? Or should I (temporarily) drop them, write a new one, and give it a proper launch?

Is there any way I could ever get an already established story more visibility and social proof? Or is the only way to gain exposure with ads?

Is it worth putting out ads, Patreon-only shorts, and hundreds of thousands of more words to try and slow-grow any of these stories further?

Should I crank out a one-shot, single-novel of something new, dump it all online fast to gain exposure and hope those readers go to my other works?

Should I just carry on writing and focus on launching the book versions? Give up on gaining Patrons?


Thoughts?

 

[RepresentingCaution]

It's really up to you. If the old characters and world no longer inspire you, start fresh. If you're still very attached to them, you probably wouldn't be asking this question.

 

[TimBaril]

It's really up to you. If the old characters and world no longer inspire you, start fresh. If you're still very attached to them, you probably wouldn't be asking this question.

It's not about being attached. On a personal level, I'd like to keep all my stories going.

But I'd also like to try making a career of this. I'm trying to figure out if it's possible with my current work or if it makes more sense to start another book instead.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

 

[ForestDweller]

It's the question I always ask to myself.

 

[WeaverofFables]

I have found no correlation between a good launch and income on patreon, except in the reverse direction (A big patreon author always has a good launch because their followers will read it immediately).

If you look closely, you will find novels that have thousands of followers but 10-30 patrons. And there are also works with fewer followers but more patrons.

The key to turning this into an income, outside of special circumstances, is what you write, how you write it, and luck.

 

[Deleted member 19066]

social proof?

??? what is social proof?

 

[LunaSoltaer]

??? what is social proof?

Real quick, social proof is "well, other people already approve of it, so it's probably good." The most common use of the expression is dating, and it's why men who come in with a womanly friend is more likely to receive positive attention from potential dates.

The same idea applies here, too.

That said, really up to you, but one of the hardest things I find as a writer is finishing a book, which is absolutely required if you're going to take your craft to a professional level. So I'd advise that if you have a specific reason to drop, drop, else press on.

 

[IdleYoungMaster]

It's up to you. Writing initially has several directions where you could go into. There are authors who write what they love and gain Patreon followers easily. Then there are authors who specialize in writing "typical" stories just to generate income (*****Z, *k***n**). I saw that the latter's works cater on general viewers while lacking in-depth. On the other hand, you can see a colorful world in the former.

Is there any way I could ever get an already established story more visibility and social proof? Or is the only way to gain exposure with ads?

One of the good ways is to drop or change your current works into "hiatus" and write a new one. It'll be a fresh start with huge potential (as it seems that your current works are capped on their limits due to no influx of new Patrons. I don't exactly recommend putting out ads as it could potentially annoy your reader, labeling you as "greedy" and such. I have seen that case on ******Z back in a certain platform.

Is it worth putting out ads, Patreon-only shorts, and hundreds of thousands of more words to try and slow-grow any of these stories further?

Then again, I don't recommend putting ads. Your readers already know about your patreon page on the initial description. Meaning, only the ones who are interested in doing so would be your Patron. Advertisements could hardly change this fact (speaking from experiences). Making slow-growth would be quite meaningless if your main goal is to have Patrons. It'll be better to start anew in this scenario.

Should I crank out a one-shot, single-novel of something new, dump it all online fast to gain exposure and hope those readers go to my other works?

In my opinion, this doesn't seem worth it. Most of the readers gained there would be originally interested in your one-shot, not your other works. There would be portions of your readers who will stay in your works, but there'll be chances that they won't mind it. For short, it's the problem with attention span.

Should I just carry on writing and focus on launching the book versions? Give up on gaining Patrons?

If your works are of your interest, I recommend doing so. If you write just for "fun" or to satiate your interest, this decision won't harm you. Of course, the downside is that you can only keep hoping that new patrons would join your work (if you are in the hundreds yet stay at 3~5 patrons, there's lesser chances of this happening).

These are my thoughts regarding each of your questions. Personally, I would keep on writing even if there isn't any patrons as I write for the interest of myself and my readers. Only a small amount of patrons are with me, but I'm very okay with that. This is just my thoughts about it, though. I can't bear seeing my works not being properly ended.

Hope these helps.

 

[Representing_Tromba]

Do what you want. It's different for everyone and every story.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Do you engage in conversations with your followers and patrons or are they just passive money for you? A few of the more (monetary) popular series try to actively engage their community, which is a good way to keep and increase the readers you already have. Word of mouth travels far, after all.

 

[Empyrea]

When I was a reader without a lot of money, what got me to sub to a patreon was history, consistency, and then interest. If you have a lot of unfinished works and go on long breaks, it would be hard to justify the expense to myself. "What's the point of paying for something that's just going to be dropped for something else the author thinks is more exciting?"

Other than that, do what you want to and can manage. A poorly written story can have a lot of support if enough people like how it feels, and a genius story with new and exciting ideas can go completely unnoticed for any number of reasons. So I wish you the best of luck.

 

[melchi]

I think shirtaloon wrote in an AMA that before he launched he who fights with monsters he already had a backlog of 80k words. He then posted very consistently more so than other similar authors.

Like with many things in life, saying what you'll do and doing what you say is the most important.

 

[Jemini]

Even when I start up a new story, I try to stay within the same world setting as much as possible, often expanding the universe rather than just starting up something completely new.

Right now, I'm trying to set up a set of 2 parallel stories that are taking place in the same world and at the same time, and I plan to continue on writing both stories. The characters from the two stories will cross over with each other often, including meetings of the main cast and on some occasions even having main cast members from one story jump to the other story.

The idea is that the main character of one story actually is a significant side character in the other. Or, more like there is a larger story within the world going on in all this, and we are seeing the perspectives of two of the major players in it.

(Still working on the 2nd of the two, it's called Hell's Underworld. Key to the Void, the one that's already released, is the first. However, it will soon go on hiatus as I work on catching HU up to be at the same point in the timeline as KttV.)

 

[DWinchester]

I completely sympathize with this question. I am very diligently writing one story that has perhaps 20 readers and am over 150k words on it. The logical thing to do is to drop it and focus on my other more popular stories, but I can't bring myself to do it. It's a commitment to myself as much as anything. When I finish it I might not have any donors, but I will have a completed novel I care about, and that's important too.

BUT - that lesson has informed my other projects. Each one has been "more commercial" I guess you could say, in an attempt to chase that dragon. Financially the results have been limited, but on a readership basis, my second book garnered 4x more readers than my first story, and my third 3x my second, so I feel like that is progress. I agree that a story will either make it big or it won't in short order, but in this case, but I also know that if a later story attracts readers, some of those will trickle down to your earlier work.

Personally, I say keep going. If you've got a story no one is reading you could always try putting it on another site.

 

[Shirtaloon]

As someone who has found commercial success and transitioned to full-time authorship, I found that a calculated launch strategy was essential for reaching the critical mass of attention. I build my initial audience on Scribblehub and especially Royal Road, which has the larger audience base for a litRPG author like myself. My launch process from initial release to scheduling to launching a Patreon was planned out in advance, and while I certainly caught some lucky breaks, my preparation placed me in a position to capitalise on them.

I think the best guide to transitioning from hobby writer to career writer through serial fiction was written by the author of Defiance of the Fall, one of the most successful Royal Road stories of all time. He placed it in the RR forums: https://www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/116847

 

[TheEldritchGod]

If you want to make money, just write porn. Simple as that. Whore yourself. You want to be a "real" author, then write the damn book as you see the story and starve like the rest.

 

[Sebas_Guzman]

I'm going to be extremely rough with you, because I don't think anyone else will be. If you want the kind words, you can look at everyone else. If you don't want "rough" you can skip me.

This first part will probably be the kindest.

"I'm trying to figure out if I can make something out of what I have or if I should start fresh."

I get this. I was there too, but in a slightly more successful variation. Right now I have a handful of series.
Series 1: 200+ ratings on Amazon after 2 years
Series 2: 200+ratings on Amazon after 3 months
Series 3: 800+ ratings on Amazon after 2 months
Series 4: 300+ ratings on Amazon after 2 months
Then, I have two series here on scribblehub.

Okay, so that first series. I loved it, but it wasnt making enough money. If I kept going the way I did, I would not be able to finish it and would likely be more miserable than I am today. One year after releasing it, I did series 2, and learned what success really looked like.
Then i did series 3, and god. Now I KNOW what to do. Coming back to the question, I can only continue my least profitable series because I have my big series making money. Thing is, you can make money from your financially weak series, it's just a matter of how long it will take.

Now, let's get serious. Your books are not good books. I don't know why anyone would lie to you. Actually, I do know. There's probably raw quality there, buuuuut they aren't suited for generating money. That's why they're not good. I checked one of the reviews for one series. Let me quote this part:
"
I don't like to exaggerate, but this level of writing for the two characters trumps every other web novel I have ever read. I'm a writer, I'm also involved in novels for work, and this still managed to surprise me. It could still turn to trash in the future, but for now I'm utterly stunned.
I'm not sure this will be RR's cup of tea. The characterization is wonderful, but people here are used to much lower standards."

This is a gigantic red flag for a story with these metrics. You might not be accessible at all. Royal road is PICKY and when you have someone mocking the average standard on royal road? Friend, this is not the kind of person you want to be courting for your work if you want profits. I mean, they're nice because they will appreciate the effort you put in, but you don't want to attract the experienced reader, because those guys are a small population and not going to produce money. You want the casual reader.

Which leads me to the main point again. Given the spectacular failures we are seeing here, you will most likely not make any life-changing money even if you do a new series with other people's advice. Why? Because you seem to be too smart for the average audiences. You need to better adapt to your market places.

Moving on to those mistakes:
1. Proper Launch. Yes, this can be scary but your best move is to have a stockpile of chapters. I had 60k words written for one of my scribblehub stories before releasing. Now, this all blows up if you have an inaccessible pile of words.
2. Ideally you want to keep this consistent. A dud of a series killing your will makes sense though. If you have to pull out completely, it might be better to end it officially, so at least you have completed works in your backlog.
3. Covers: I'm not sure. I dont have an eye for this... World of Fantasy looks epic... Compared to Trad published, I think you're fine. But RR and SH are hyper-competitive, so you need to be better than trad.

Moving on to questions:
Is there any way I could ever get an already established story more visibility and social proof? Or is the only way to gain exposure with ads?
Yeah, the game is pretty pay to play. Thing is, I don't know if buying ads on RR would be helpful... Here's a stragetgy you could try, but it might blow up if the issue is accessibility and not exposure. Write, let's say 50k words, then update on Royal Road twice a day, five days a week. What you're doing is increasing the amount of times you're on the first page. You need to see if there's a significant uptick. If your story was screwed because of marketing, you CAN save it. Don't tell yourself it was marketing that ruined it though. Be ready for the worst.


Is it worth putting out ads, Patreon-only shorts, and hundreds of thousands of more words to try and slow-grow any of these stories further?
Make some money with new writing before you consider investing time in spectacular financial failures. In other words, you can work on them on the side, but dont make them primary,

Should I crank out a one-shot, single-novel of something new, dump it all online fast to gain exposure and hope those readers go to my other works?
... I mean, yes, but make it a one-shot with the potential of continuing just in case this is the money maker. Forget about people going to the very likely inferior works. Make the something new something that could support you while you waste time on your more loved, but significantly less successful children.

Should I just carry on writing and focus on launching the book versions? Give up on gaining Patrons?
Well, I think launching the books would be lovely buuuuuuut, given metrics, you might only be able to make a couple hundred dollars if you market correctly on the right free groups.

Look, if you need money to keep writing, you cant give up on patreon. You can't chase after fish with a rickety butterfly net however. This is a game of probabilities. All we know for certain is that your current style is allergic to financial success. Your best odds of success are in a new series that is more attractive than the first ones.

If you dont need money, experiment as you'd like. People who have a lot of time, and keep trying, DO eventually find something that works. It's just that you cant rely on the idea that you're one of the ones who will stumble upon your perfect answer in the next year.

 

[avaseofpeonies]

When I was a reader without a lot of money, what got me to sub to a patreon was history, consistency, and then interest. If you have a lot of unfinished works and go on long breaks, it would be hard to justify the expense to myself. "What's the point of paying for something that's just going to be dropped for something else the author thinks is more exciting?"

Other than that, do what you want to and can manage. A poorly written story can have a lot of support if enough people like how it feels, and a genius story with new and exciting ideas can go completely unnoticed for any number of reasons. So I wish you the best of luck.

This. A lot of readers in the web fiction sphere won't start reading a story until it's finished. Having a catalogue of unfinished dropped works will make you look like a risk. Having finished works in your catalogue will prove your reliability. Finished works will probably see more readers themselves, and those readers will be more likely to take a chance on your new ongoing work.

 

[ForestDweller]

This. A lot of readers in the web fiction sphere won't start reading a story until it's finished. Having a catalogue of unfinished dropped works will make you look like a risk. Having finished works in your catalogue will prove your reliability. Finished works will probably see more readers themselves, and those readers will be more likely to take a chance on your new ongoing work.

What if your finished work is an ecchi harem smut but your new work is a clean, wholesome work? Don't you rather write the new one as a new author?