How does the western powerset do "cultivation"

[NotaNuffian]

As the title state, how does your average fighter/ swordsman/ non-magic wielding MCs get strong enough to face cultivators without the magic of evolving into a superhuman just by doing martial arts? Not talking about LitRPG and system based "ding, you get smol pener and bod of bodybuilder", though I can see that it is also a way of cultivation, if cultivation is just "level up level up level up".

For cultivation, it is always suck air, build scaffolding, grow a golden pearl like mussel and Mpreg. Maybe also Post- and Pre-celestial being thrown into the mix as well just to illustrate the gap between the unwashed masses and PC God Race.

For wizards (yes I said wizards becaise if I say mages, I feel that it is unfair for the nerds who wasted their lives just to get oneupped by the trust fund kid and escort) , they studied like mad at the rules of reality like dao seekers and ended up mastering the C programming to the world, thus they are more like taoist cultivators who sit on their asses all day and snort moth balls.

Rotating back to the physical attackers, in xianxia, houtian pugilists are often laughed at because they train their body to buff af but they don't have the genetic mutation that turn their body into those long lived elves. But they still get some enhancement done to their body due to the extreme exercises.

I never really seen such a thing in western fantasy world, not even in xuanhuan.

In the Original Vampire, the author very briefly tried to say that level six (maxed level) warrior is still OP as it can do aura stuff. But it is too brief and the author did not put in the effort to show how to level up... in fact it is a terrible novel as it only shows Colin (MC) sucking blood to level up.

Of course there are talks of aura usage, accumulate and use, in Survival Story of Sword King, that is how aura users grow. Like how pugilists in xianxia, they continue to refine their techniques and body to cultivate.

... So is there any other method of non-magic users to grow? Other than using an alternative source of energy, of course.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Train how to fight\control their powers.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

I usually put them as good piggies that the mistresses (mages etc) walk all over because fuck equality, redpilled PC masterrace (mages etc) will naturally outgigachad the soyboy wagecuck normies (warriors etc) by miles

 

[aimless]

Being a main character. Simple.

 

[DarkeReises]

I usually put them as good piggies that the mistresses (mages etc) walk all over because fuck equality, redpilled PC masterrace (mages etc) will naturally outgigachad the soyboy wagecuck normies (warriors etc) by miles

It is impossible to defeat magical forces without magical forces. All there is to it. Warriors always need the implementation of a magical/worldly/natural/cosmic/whateverthefuck power such as aura or internal force and stuff to be able to compete against mages and cultivators, and the warriors usually get the short end of the stick with it just being hard to make a system of power for warriors that matches up with reality bending mages, leaving their powers wholly underdeveloped and not fleshed out in most if not all stories.

 

[Vladarius]

so, other methods, than Aura(hippy Life Force), QI(Chinese life force) and mana(nature protection agency life force), one way to make a main character strong without them having any magical or supernatural ability is through.

-Artifacts, tools which are magical. The stronger the artifact the stronger the user.

-Enhancing the mind. The more experience, and the stronger the mind is, then the easier it is to read the opponents.

-Alchemy to make the body stronger. the more experiments and more elixirs the mc takes the stronger and maybe more genetically fucked he gets.

-Evolution, the mc finds some kind of machine or magical shit that evolves him either through sacrifice or other shenanigans.

-Making contracts with higher beings, depending on the being he will have to sell a part of himself to gain power.

 

[DarkeReises]

Being a main character. Simple.

would say the only exception to above, but plot armor falls under magical/worldly/natural/cosmic/whateverthefuck power in my book.

so, other methods, than Aura(hippy Life Force), QI(Chinese life force) and mana(nature protection agency life force), one way to make a main character strong without them having any magical or supernatural ability is through.

-Artifacts, tools which are magical. The stronger the artifact the stronger the user.

-Enhancing the mind. The more experience, and the stronger the mind is, then the easier it is to read the opponents.

-Alchemy to make the body stronger. the more experiments and more elixirs the mc takes the stronger and maybe more genetically fucked he gets.

-Evolution, the mc finds some kind of machine or magical shit that evolves him either through sacrifice or other shenanigans.

-Making contracts with higher beings, depending on the being he will have to sell a part of himself to gain power.

Genetic fuckery(evolution and/or alchemy) kinda work... Until you think about how it's done. Pure science? Completely limited and at some point would have to become a magical creature to not fall behind. Alchemy is magical. And evolution is usually done through magical energies refining the body and elevating it to higher levels, in stories that is. Because evolution takes too long otherwise, and also doesn't just happen in one individual. Sure, you can argue that because the character isn't actually using magic, they are still a non-magic user gaining strength... But it still doesn't change the inclusion of magical/... energies n stuff.

For artifacts, there are simply way too many weaknesses. Plus above, still magical energies influencing the user themself to keep their strength equal with the artifacts, and I'd argue using magical artifacts might as well make someone a magic user.

Enhancing the mind, as in psychics, is the most promising, but there's still that whole magical/... power component. And just pure skill and reading someone means nothing against a person who can obliterate mountains with a snap of their finger, or erase continents with a single chant.

Making contracts uses magical/... energies or maybe even worldly laws as a binding force.

Anyways, my opinion is that aside from mages/wizards/sorcerers/etc., nothing else in the 'western powerset' can match cultivators. Because nothing else in the 'western powerset' can even come close to mages/wizards/sorcerers/etc. without essentially replicating and tapping into their domain in the first place, just through different energies and methodologies.

 

[CarburetorThompson]

Buy a gun

 

[Mandark]

Your idea basically answered the question, Western ‘Wizards’ study the magic system of their own worlds (sort of like cultivators). In many high-fantasy stories the amount of mana a person has is set in stone, but the way the character uses spells/etc can be unique.

The same goes for physical characters. Western fantasy swordsmen may use mana to enhance their physical power, but they really get strong by learning the sword. In some ways it’s also like sword cultivators.

However, the HUGE elephant in the room is the power scaling. Western Fantasy doesn’t have the strength levels of xianxia. In Xianxia (Immortal Hero) novels you see characters are able to destroy cities by the time they form a Golden Core… this is usually the 3rd or 4th power level out of 9 or 10. By the time they get to the 9th level, they can typically destroy planets easily if they want to. Basically there’s no way to compare the 2 genres.

Western Fantasy and Wuxia are way more in line… since typically both rely on techniques to use their mana (western) or Qi (eastern) energies. This includes physical characters, these worlds have Mana/Qi just in the air all around. When people in these worlds do push-ups, runs, fight, etc. they are breathing in the power and it strengthens them.

 

[Vladarius]

Genetic fuckery(evolution and/or alchemy) kinda work... Until you think about how it's done. Pure science? Completely limited and at some point would have to become a magical creature to not fall behind. Alchemy is magical. And evolution is usually done through magical energies refining the body and elevating it to higher levels, in stories that is. Because evolution takes too long otherwise, and also doesn't just happen in one individual. Sure, you can argue that because the character isn't actually using magic, they are still a non-magic user gaining strength... But it still doesn't change the inclusion of magical/... energies n stuff.

For artifacts, there are simply way too many weaknesses. Plus above, still magical energies influencing the user themself to keep their strength equal with the artifacts, and I'd argue using magical artifacts might as well make someone a magic user.

Enhancing the mind, as in psychics, is the most promising, but there's still that whole magical/... power component. And just pure skill and reading someone means nothing against a person who can obliterate mountains with a snap of their finger, or erase continents with a single chant.

Making contracts uses magical/... energies or maybe even worldly laws as a binding force.

Anyways, my opinion is that aside from mages/wizards/sorcerers/etc., nothing else in the 'western powerset' can match cultivators. Because nothing else in the 'western powerset' can even come close to mages/wizards/sorcerers/etc. without essentially replicating and tapping into their domain in the first place, just through different energies and methodologies.

The amount of bullshit this guy just said makes me wanna try and argue, but since there is no point cuz he missed the whole point of the thread, I'm gonna ignore it.

 

[vaurwyn]

Just don't make your cultivation system OP. Limit it in some way, like saying that cultivation is the refinement of the soul, where you gain the ability to cast devastating spells, but are very weak and vulnerable up close. A top-tier cultivation can destroy an entire army with one move, but if he is not careful and lets a low level warrior hit him, then he is still dead.
Conversely, warriors have a much more restricted moveset, limited to single attacks, but they can have a much higher defensive power, being almost unkillable by anyone too far below their level.
I think of it like a dark souls boss fight. The boss (the mele warrior) has more health and stronger attacks, but he can be predicted and avoided. The player (the cultivator) has much more options, but is overall weaker, being a jack of all trade master of none. You have to be much more careful and meticulous, avoiding any hits, slowly walking down the health of your opponent.
Another way of balancing things would be to have cultivation be OP like it usually is, but say that it requires a lot more time, talent and resources. They dominate their own level, but are always one or two levels behind everyone else in their generation.
The cultivation system is usually a standalone one, that is basically without limits. It is often divided into different cultivation sub-system that each have their own limits. If you want to pit it with another system, you have to restrict the overall effect of cultivation, or create an equally op system to counteract it.
I would also say that the power system in Carefree Path of Dreams is pretty good for that, as you have clear demarkation between "martial artist" and "spiritual knights", with both being relatively equal.