Guns in Fantasy

Gray_Mann

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I've been stirring something up for some time. A while actually. But I'm still unable to settle on combat.

Most of the time, when I settled on writing something, it's always taken on a Dragonball-esque quality. When I say that, I mean hand-to-hand combat and flashy attacks. Not like Kamehameha Wave, but more like Naruto-esque.

In short, my typical vision of Magical Combat when I envision a story I'd write, is mostly hand-to-hand with flashy magical strikes, with people wielding weapons being the outliers.

But lately, I've been dwelling on something more modern. Think early 22nd Century but Resource Wars kicked off half a century prior so everything is both more advanced and more primitive because the world is fucked and the apocalypse is here. Combine that with the discovery of Magic and a portal to an "Other Place." It's not a system-type story btw, so no stats.

The problem is, only certain people manifest Magic. The beasts in this Other Place, while they can be killed by typical rounds, it's inefficient. They become bullet sponges. However, the discovery of a type of metallic-crystal that is self-sustainable since it replenishes itself no matter how often it is mined, is used to both to craft weapons and ammunition for guns, this ammunition being more sufficient at putting down the beasts of the Other Place.

In short, guns are the primary form of combat for regular guys who form the garrisons, and make up the security for mining groups in this Other Place, but all they have is the guns. Then you have Mages, who can wield Magic, also possess guns, but they are the elite troops, and for reasons that don't matter because fuck realism, rule of cool rules all, they also have specialized melee weapons to fight beasts in hand-to-hand combat.

The typical battle, would involve the regular guys laying down suppressive fire while the Mages move in with melee weapons and engage specific targets.

I'm not sure what the problem is, or if there even is one. Something is bugging me I guess.

I guess the problem is, I have no idea how to write gun-related combat. I've mostly dabbled in hand-to-hand, so even melee weapon writing is foreign to me though I feel like I could pick that up easily...but guns?

Sorry I rambled big time here.
 

Gray_Mann

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you need to check out Saga of Tanya the Evil. they do a similar concept, and it'd probably help you with your idea
Seen it. The anime at least. It's not what I'm looking for. They ride those weird vehicles throughout most of the fighting, which isn't what I'm going for.
 

Gray_Mann

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Seeing how you derailed my thread I should return the favor, what do you think?
 

Madkins

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Seen it. The anime at least. It's not what I'm looking for. They ride those weird vehicles throughout most of the fighting, which isn't what I'm going for.
fair enough, I simply meant for gun play. you could always set up a simple caveat that distinguishes certain weapon types apart other than ammo or weapon type. it could be something like the person using it themselves with a martial art combination like in Equilibrium.
 

HisDivineShadow

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fair enough, I simply meant for gun play. you could always set up a simple caveat that distinguishes certain weapon types apart other than ammo or weapon type. it could be something like the person using it themselves with a martial art combination like in Equilibrium.
Gun kata
In the movie it looked dynamic and aesthetically pleasing.
But will it have the same effect in a book?
 

Gray_Mann

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But will it have the same effect in a book?
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. I knew what he meant, but I'm not convinced gun-kata works so well in the written form. Seems like it would get excessively wordy to describe all the moves and nuances of the actual combat, which more often then not, drags people out of the immersion
 

Madkins

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how about a process like, describe move one time - name move- use name to reference move?
 

HisDivineShadow

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Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. I knew what he meant, but I'm not convinced gun-kata works so well in the written form. Seems like it would get excessively wordy to describe all the moves and nuances of the actual combat, which more often then not, drags people out of the immersion
Yes. It’s rare for an author to be able to describe it in a way that truly holds you.
how about a process like, describe move one time - name move- use name to reference move?
Boring?
 

Gray_Mann

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how about a process like, describe move one time - name move- use name to reference move?
Sounds like how Robert Jordan did swordfighting in the Wheel of Time.


He would have fight scenes like "Rand stabbed forward, pivoted and twisted, his backswing easily sliding into Wolf Howling At The Moon while Jeffrey countered with Horse Neighs At The Gate. Ducking a side slash and back-stepping from a follow-up thrust from Jeffrey, Rand lunged forward, using the momentum of his movement to quickly unleash Fish Dances On The Pogo Stick, Jeffrey barely managing to block with Yellow Flowers Smell Like Piss.
 

NotaNuffian

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My question is, do you have forms between user (human) against fellow man and user against beast (since mana beast is an issue)?

For the former, the gun fights should preferably done at a rapid pace like how a cowboy duel is like because guns kill fast when hit at right spot or a drawn out Gears of War Duck and Cover shooting.

For the latter, just go with standard Gate thing.

Also in both cases, martial arts and body finesse are still crucial. Gun is now the new sword but in the end, it is the person wielding it that is the crux. Hell, the cover based shooting can have John Woo gun akimbo, bullet time dodging and aiming.
 

Gray_Mann

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Also in both cases, martial arts and body finesse are still crucial. Gun is now the new sword but in the end, it is the person wielding it that is the crux. Hell, the cover based shooting can have John Woo gun akimbo, bullet time dodging and aiming.
I likely explained poorly. My post was a ramble after all.

So the regular joes get the rifles, they form lines, or behind fortifications, and pick off the mobs. Meanwhile, the Mages, meaning the elites, wear better armor, wield melee weapons, and close the distance with the elite enemies. So, while the regular joes with rifles are holding off the mobs, Mages are charging ahead and fighting the stronger foes in close range.

It's like cavalry in the Pike and Shot era. The Pike and Arquebusiers would form lines and fight in formation. Meanwhile, Cavalry who are the elites in this example, would have sabers and lances as their main weapon, with pistols as a side. Cavalry in the Pike and Shot era would charge ahead unload their pistols in close range, and then charge the opposing cavalry in close range. Same for Mages in my scenario.

Even in the Pike and Shot Era, where the importance of cavalry was beginning to wane, battles were still often decided by which sides cavalry won their melee clashes with the opposing cavalry.
 

NotaNuffian

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I likely explained poorly. My post was a ramble after all.

So the regular joes get the rifles, they form lines, or behind fortifications, and pick off the mobs. Meanwhile, the Mages, meaning the elites, wear better armor, wield melee weapons, and close the distance with the elite enemies. So, while the regular joes with rifles are holding off the mobs, Mages are charging ahead and fighting the stronger foes in close range.
I like how the mages are literally magic knights in this case.

So I assume all the supposed knights/ warriors who could use aura (alt form of mana) are now all shoved under mages?

So this is not a one v one or few v few, but rather a platoon of joes v a pile of nids?

First of, it is a clusterfuck, single out who is important and those that aren't either gets no sentence on them or group into a significant unit like "a handful of riflemen" or "a clump of goblins and imps".

Who is the main deciding force in their respective teams that would end the fight? These people are important and the paragraphs should all be about them. You can interject with minor annoyance or faux deus ex machina from the crowd during the fight between the two main important people.

Sounds like how Robert Jordan did swordfighting in the Wheel of Time.


He would have fight scenes like "Rand stabbed forward, pivoted and twisted, his backswing easily sliding into Wolf Howling At The Moon while Jeffrey countered with Horse Neighs At The Gate. Ducking a side slash and back-stepping from a follow-up thrust from Jeffrey, Rand lunged forward, using the momentum of his movement to quickly unleash Fish Dances On The Pogo Stick, Jeffrey barely managing to block with Yellow Flowers Smell Like Piss.
Ah, the chinese method.

They are white noise to me and all I know is Monkey Steals Peach is balls assault
 

Gray_Mann

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So I assume all the supposed knights/ warriors who could use aura (alt form of mana) are now all shoved under mages?
No aura. Either you are a rifleman, or a Mage.

Monkey Steals Peach is balls assault
That's amazing! XD

Sounds almost like the old Shadow Run RPG.
Heard of it. Never seen it though.

Plus watch Trigun.
Wow. You are really tugging on my memory strings now. Pulling me back to when YuYu Hakusho and Inuyasha were the shit.
 

CharlesEBrown

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Heard of it. Never seen it though.
The basic concept is that, in a "near future" ruled by megacorporations instead of (or that replaced) national governments, something happened and magic suddenly returned to the world. Some people were transformed into fantasy archetypes, some have found ways to blend magic and science, some still cling to science alone, and some have gone for the more martial paths and try to perfect their bodies to just survive.
 
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