Forgiveness is Transactional

[melchi]

Something I read in stories from time to time is some kind of forgiveness plot. Most of them lack the catharsis that would make them work. Why? Because forgiveness is a transaction.

EX: Char1 : I can't pay you back, will you forgive me?
Char2 : I understand, and will forgive you.

Bad EX: Char1 : Sorry, I can't pay you back and I don't know when I will be able to
Char2 : It is okay, I forgive you.
<Transaction not satisfied, Char1 doesn't admit they need forgiveness so Char2 is doing something that they didn't ask for>

So, in a story I'm reading, a girl who can't cast spells grows up from 6 to 12 having her fraternal twin who can cast spells constantly hexing her, turning her into a frog, freezing her in place, making her braid fall out in embarrassing situations saying she's adopted, general things cruel siblings would do to each other. The only thing is that the non-magic sister can't strike back. She has no magic.

Fast forward, things change and Dad says to abused daughter, "Please forgive your sister"

I think this is even more cruel.

Abuse is a DEBT, 6 years of hexes is a balance on an account.

Without admitting the debt, and what the actual cost of repayment can be no cantharis. Please don't write like this. What would be the cost to repay 6 years of hexes? If this question is not answered then then it is just like maiming someone and saying "Sorry" then walking off. Accounts need to be settled.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Abuse is a DEPT,

Typo?

 

[georgelee5786]

You don't need to request forgiveness to be forgiven. Forgiving an enemy can itself be revenge. "For in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.”

As for paying back 6 years of hexes? Honestly, you can't really. It's hard to put s value on pain. Either you torment them equally or let it slide, I think

 

[Deleted member 84247]

I generally agree. however, I think having the forgiveness be unsatisfying can be a part of the plot. It's a very natural thing to happen, but if it does happen, I expect the dissatisfaction to appear in the actions of the character who was forced to forgive.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I generally agree. however, I think having the forgiveness be unsatisfying can be a part of the plot. It's a very natural thing to happen, but if it does happen, I expect the dissatisfaction to appear in the actions of the character who was forced to forgive.

I agree. It depends on what you want to achieve.

 

[Corty]

My MC forgave her enemies.

After killing them.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

My MC forgave her enemies.

After killing them.

Based mudrerhobo MC.

 

[Representing_Tromba]

I think of it like this. When a person wrongs/sins against/hurts a person, they need to repay in kind for the damage. Forgiveness is like debt forgiveness. If we forgive people for their debts then they are more likely to forgive your debts as well. Forgiveness can be used against people or to benefit the relationship but it can also be a weapon against those who refuse to apologize, make amends, or feel they did any wrong.

 

[melchi]

I generally agree. however, I think having the forgiveness be unsatisfying can be a part of the plot. It's a very natural thing to happen, but if it does happen, I expect the dissatisfaction to appear in the actions of the character who was forced to forgive.

Man, cruel sister, even crueler dad, what kind of family was the main character raised in?

My MC forgave her enemies.

After killing them.

I'm fairly sure that is just collecting the dept owed.

 

[Corty]

I'm fairly sure that is just collecting the dept owed

True. They owed her in blood.

 

[Conqueror_Quack]

DEPT

What's this word supposed to mean? I couldn't find the meaning on the internet.

 

[ElijahRyne]

Something I read in stories from time to time is some kind of forgiveness plot. Most of them lack the catharsis that would make them work. Why? Because forgiveness is a transaction.

EX: Char1 : I can't pay you back, will you forgive me?
Char2 : I understand, and will forgive you.

Bad EX: Char1 : Sorry, I can't pay you back and I don't know when I will be able to
Char2 : It is okay, I forgive you.
<Transaction not satisfied, Char1 doesn't admit they need forgiveness so Char2 is doing something that they didn't ask for>

So, in a story I'm reading, a girl who can't cast spells grows up from 6 to 12 having her fraternal twin who can cast spells constantly hexing her, turning her into a frog, freezing her in place, making her braid fall out in embarrassing situations saying she's adopted, general things cruel siblings would do to each other. The only thing is that the non-magic sister can't strike back. She has no magic.

Fast forward, things change and Dad says to abused daughter, "Please forgive your sister"

I think this is even more cruel.

Abuse is a DEPT, 6 years of hexes is a balance on an account.

Without admitting the dept, and what the actual cost of repayment can be no cantharis. Please don't write like this. What would be the cost to repay 6 years of hexes? If this question is not answered then then it is just like maiming someone and saying "Sorry" then walking off. Accounts need to be settled.

I haven’t read the story in question, but it seems more like the father is either oblivious or just doesn’t care. Instead of him fixing everything by making the abuser say sorry. It is more likely that the abuser will continue to some extent. As for forgiveness being transactional, I think that depends on the context. If someone accidentally bumps into you, I don’t think they have accumulated any ‘forgiveness debt‘. Someone has repeatedly bumped into you, to the extent it can’t be an accident, I wouldn’t forgive them until they stop, explain why they were doing it, make attempts to make sure it never happens again, and request forgiveness. If some one has abused me for six years, however, I severely doubt I could forgive them. At most, assuming they are making changes and requesting forgiveness, I would tolerate an occasional meeting, avoid, and/or ignore them.

 

[Corty]

What's this word supposed to mean? I couldn't find the meaning on the internet.

Short for department of revenge is best served cold bureau.

 

[melchi]

Typo?

Yeah it should be debt

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Objection!

Something I read in stories from time to time is some kind of forgiveness plot. Most of them lack the catharsis that would make them work. Why? Because forgiveness is a transaction.

EX: Char1 : I can't pay you back, will you forgive me?
Char2 : I understand, and will forgive you.

Bad EX: Char1 : Sorry, I can't pay you back and I don't know when I will be able to
Char2 : It is okay, I forgive you.
<Transaction not satisfied, Char1 doesn't admit they need forgiveness so Char2 is doing something that they didn't ask for>

So, in a story I'm reading, a girl who can't cast spells grows up from 6 to 12 having her fraternal twin who can cast spells constantly hexing her, turning her into a frog, freezing her in place, making her braid fall out in embarrassing situations saying she's adopted, general things cruel siblings would do to each other. The only thing is that the non-magic sister can't strike back. She has no magic.

Fast forward, things change and Dad says to abused daughter, "Please forgive your sister"

I think this is even more cruel.

Abuse is a DEPT, 6 years of hexes is a balance on an account.

Without admitting the dept, and what the actual cost of repayment can be no cantharis. Please don't write like this. What would be the cost to repay 6 years of hexes? If this question is not answered then then it is just like maiming someone and saying "Sorry" then walking off. Accounts need to be settled.

Two parts:

First, I don't think forgiveness is transactional. It is the decision of one side on the other that happens wholly within one's heart.
It can be made easier if the other is repentant and is seeking forgiveness, but that's not really a transaction instead a change of heart. Love will cover a multitude of sins, love keeps no record of wrongs. So the real question is how much does one love the other.

Forgiveness is love. Love cannot be transactional.

Second,
What you describe is bad writing. Does 1 love 2? Is father asking something unreasonable? From how you are upset, I can tell what the case is.
Author should have written the internal conflict better.

I find that whenever forgiveness is treated transactionally, there is a hollowness to the whole thing. But maybe that is just me.

 

[NineHeadHeavenDevouringSerpent]

Better yet, don't forgive just forget.

Not everything has to come to a happy ending, not every relationship is worth mending.

Leave the grievances, it's these small things that make a story more deep and engaging.

 

[melchi]

Objection!

Two parts:

First, I don't think forgiveness is transactional. It is the decision of one side on the other that happens wholly within one's heart.
It can be made easier if the other is repentant and is seeking forgiveness, but that's not really a transaction instead a change of heart. Love will cover a multitude of sins, love keeps no record of wrongs. So the real question is how much does one love the other.

Forgiveness is love. Love cannot be transactional.

Forgiveness and love are not the same thing. In said novel, the father and mother love their daughters. Both parents thought that being exposed to hexes was a good way to unlock the magicless daughter's magic. They tolerated it because it was supposed to be a way to take a chance that would lead the girl to her best possible future. I don't think the parents love was ever in doubt.

Dad asked victimized daughter to forgive his sister. He admitted that he made a mistake in raising his daughters.

Admitting is key.

Her sister never admitted what she did was cruel and wrong. She just saw her sister move from a family embarrassment to someone to be jealous of when she later found success. Who could forgive someone that went from treating poorly in one way to poorly in another way.

EX: Sister1: I forgive you, dad told me so.
Sister2 : Forgive me for what? I didn't do anything wrong.
Sister1: . . .

How would such a conversation feel?

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Forgiveness and love are not the same thing. In said novel, the father and mother love their daughters. Both parents thought that being exposed to hexes was a good way to unlock the magicless daughter's magic. They tolerated it because it was supposed to be a way to take a chance that would lead the girl to her best possible future. I don't think the parents love was ever in doubt.

Dad asked victimized daughter to forgive his sister. He admitted that he made a mistake in raising his daughters.

Admitting is key.

Her sister never admitted what she did was cruel and wrong. She just saw her sister move from a family embarrassment to someone to be jealous of when she later found success. Who could forgive someone that went from treating poorly in one way to poorly in another way.

EX: Sister1: I forgive you, dad told me so.
Sister2 : Forgive me for what? I didn't do anything wrong.
Sister1: . . .

How would such a conversation feel?

Hmm, so the sister thought she was helping her sister with the hexes? Or did she just like getting away with being mean to her?
Why does she not think she did anything wrong? Maybe she was just following what her parents encouraged her to do.

It may be that the sister is simply not worthy of forgiveness, but father still loves them both and wants them to get along.

Now that I'm thinking of it, this may be a situation where cultural differences between you as a reader and the author are what are driving this frustration. Some cultures see no issue with bullying those who are seen as failures. I'm not taking the side of the author, but that may be fueling this type of writing.

I mostly object to forgiveness being used in a business sense, but what you seem to be saying more of a personal transaction than a businesslike one.
Well, sometimes there are people who will not forgive no matter what the other does. In such cases this is because there is no love for the person and such no forgiveness. So I think love is a requirement for forgiveness.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Hmm, so the sister thought she was helping her sister with the hexes? Or did she just like getting away with being mean to her?
Why does she not think she did anything wrong? Maybe she was just following what her parents encouraged her to do.

It may be that the sister is simply not worthy of forgiveness, but father still loves them both and wants them to get along.

Now that I'm thinking of it, this may be a situation where cultural differences between you as a reader and the author are what are driving this frustration. Some cultures see no issue with bullying those who are seen as failures. I'm not taking the side of the author, but that may be fueling this type of writing.

I mostly object to forgiveness being used in a business sense, but what you seem to be saying more of a personal transaction than a businesslike one.
Well, sometimes there are people who will not forgive no matter what the other does. In such cases this is because there is no love for the person and such no forgiveness. So I think love is a requirement for forgiveness.

You miss the point.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

You miss the point.

Sometimes I do that.