Arrogance and Competence

[NotaNuffian]

These two shits seem to be mutually exclusive when not on MC, even worse is that when on villains, the former is so much more bigger and oftentimes it is the downfall for them when up againsting the main cast.

Let's be honest, arrogant shitheads exist everywhere, the young masters, some rando with perceived higher skill/ cultivation levels, nobles, that bitch cashier that judges people by my clothes. They are everywhere.

But I am only going to look at the "competent ones" instead, specifically those of nobility and of high levels. It is hard to see good villains, someone who would give MC a run for his money.

Because all I am seeing most of the times is that, they will be all snobby, laugh like idiots and seems to think that their high position/ level means that they can't fall. And when they do, they be like "NO, YOU CAN'T DO THIS!" Ffs I hate those characters so much, at least pretend to take your losses in stride and find a way to stab the MC harder, not be a whining bitchcicle.

Ignoring deus ex machina and plot armor af, competent yet prideful villains are far and few, so much so that I am having a difficult time to actually pull an example other than Saint He in Herding Gods (I most definitely fucked up his name), he remains prideful yet cautious and seem to be afloat on MC's shit, the only time that I stopped liking him is when he admits defeat and bend over to get analled by the supposed "greater villain", the next time he appear he died within three paragraphs.

Anyone here has an example of a good arrogant and competent villain? One that shows out his disdain of MC yet can proof to be a tough foe/ hurdle for MC.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

These two shits seem to be mutually exclusive when not on MC, even worse is that when on villains, the former is so much more bigger and oftentimes it is the downfall for them when up againsting the main cast.

Let's be honest, arrogant shitheads exist everywhere, the young masters, some rando with perceived higher skill/ cultivation levels, nobles, that bitch cashier that judges people by my clothes. They are everywhere.

But I am only going to look at the "competent ones" instead, specifically those of nobility and of high levels. It is hard to see good villains, someone who would give MC a run for his money.

Because all I am seeing most of the times is that, they will be all snobby, laugh like idiots and seems to think that their high position/ level means that they can't fall. And when they do, they be like "NO, YOU CAN'T DO THIS!" Ffs I hate those characters so much, at least pretend to take your losses in stride and find a way to stab the MC harder, not be a whining bitchcicle.

Ignoring deus ex machina and plot armor af, competent yet prideful villains are far and few, so much so that I am having a difficult time to actually pull an example other than Saint He in Herding Gods (I most definitely fucked up his name), he remains prideful yet cautious and seem to be afloat on MC's shit, the only time that I stopped liking him is when he admits defeat and bend over to get analled by the supposed "greater villain", the next time he appear he died within three paragraphs.

Anyone here has an example of a good arrogant and competent villain? One that shows out his disdain of MC yet can proof to be a tough foe/ hurdle for MC.

The higher your competence, the steeper your fall. Competence and major blunders are not mutually exclusive, and so are competence and arrogance.

When you play the high risk game of politics, you either win big time and your mistakes are swept aside by benevolent historiography and propaganda, or you lose big time, and you are for eternity derided. That is how it is in reality. Maybe that is why arrogant and competent villains are so rare.

 

[LordJoyde]

The chick in your profile picture is an example that gives me hope, though she's yet to prove herself. I hope she goes full villanous protag mode and exterminates humanity just like my little Anne~.

As for others, maybe Aizen? Though, he didn't really have disdain for the MC, more like intrigue.

As for why these overly arrogant, incompetents are always present, its because most writers are people who liked to imagine their bullies as pathetic, innately lame individuals whose weaknesses are covered up by loud noises, unworthy noble bloodlines and pretty clothing. People who don't do this usually write their MC's as the villains instead.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Dio Brando? Yuujiro Hanma, book version of Vilgefortz.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

These two shits seem to be mutually exclusive when not on MC, even worse is that when on villains, the former is so much more bigger and oftentimes it is the downfall for them when up againsting the main cast.

Let's be honest, arrogant shitheads exist everywhere, the young masters, some rando with perceived higher skill/ cultivation levels, nobles, that bitch cashier that judges people by my clothes. They are everywhere.

But I am only going to look at the "competent ones" instead, specifically those of nobility and of high levels. It is hard to see good villains, someone who would give MC a run for his money.

Because all I am seeing most of the times is that, they will be all snobby, laugh like idiots and seems to think that their high position/ level means that they can't fall. And when they do, they be like "NO, YOU CAN'T DO THIS!" Ffs I hate those characters so much, at least pretend to take your losses in stride and find a way to stab the MC harder, not be a whining bitchcicle.

Ignoring deus ex machina and plot armor af, competent yet prideful villains are far and few, so much so that I am having a difficult time to actually pull an example other than Saint He in Herding Gods (I most definitely fucked up his name), he remains prideful yet cautious and seem to be afloat on MC's shit, the only time that I stopped liking him is when he admits defeat and bend over to get analled by the supposed "greater villain", the next time he appear he died within three paragraphs.

Anyone here has an example of a good arrogant and competent villain? One that shows out his disdain of MC yet can proof to be a tough foe/ hurdle for MC.

There was a strategist from transcending the nine heavens that was arrogant yet extremely competent. Dude was like Zhuge Liang or some shit.

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

I think of Yun Qianying from Against The Gods when a competent villan is mentioned. She's ruthless, took her losses in stride, became a slave to protect her realm (for one day, no funny business allowed), extremely smart (erased her own memories before becoming a slave. weird for a xianxia). Through an entire arc she chased the MC then tortured him with some profound technique I don't care to remember, and even after getting plowed by the mc for days on end on the later arcs, she still is cold, calculative, cunning, cautious, and most of all dangerous. Like most xianxia, she's the venomous tongued hot chick, but the 'noble' lable still applies. She's never really 'evil' in the grand scheme of things, just brutally cruel and determined. She was palpably dangerous, powerful, antagonistic, and competent. She always came on top after every encounter, even if she lost important things, so she's willing to make sacrifices to reach success unlike the typical ice princess that cries and refuses to face reality for 400 chapters.

 

[ForestDweller]

Not a bad guy but one of my story's waifus is both arrogant and competent.

 

[Lord_Drakonus]

This is literally the problem with Chinese novels. It's even worse when the MC also behaves like this.

 

[BenJepheneT]

The higher your competence, the steeper your fall. Competence and major blunders are not mutually exclusive, and so are competence and arrogance.

When you play the high risk game of politics, you either win big time and your mistakes are swept aside by benevolent historiography and propaganda, or you lose big time, and you are for eternity derided. That is how it is in reality. Maybe that is why arrogant and competent villains are so rare.

i'd argue that competent villains would know better than to let their arrogance be their downfall. hell, they'll probably have ways to manifest their arrogance someplace else.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

i'd argue that competent villains would know better than to let their arrogance be their downfall. hell, they'll probably have ways to manifest their arrogance someplace else.

If a villain is always competent, then he would never be defeated by the MC. Because usually, villains are, by default, stronger, more powerful\influential than MC.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

i'd argue that competent villains would know better than to let their arrogance be their downfall. hell, they'll probably have ways to manifest their arrogance someplace else.

You assume perfection and perfection is not a human trait.

Genius elevates them above the common masses, and genius also makes them fall in the game of high stakes. Critical self-reflection is hard, if not impossible, at such a high level.

Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, they all committed serious blunders due to their hubris, but their competence is nevertheless undeniable.

I could cite even more examples of military leaders that seriously erred.

The prima donna Dugout Doug MacArthur is considered one of America's best generals and war heroes for reasons unknown to the rest of the world despite his atrocious military record. But he was popular at home and in the senate, so they showered him with medals.

Montgomery was a subpar choice, committing mistakes everywhere he went. He was mediocre at best, but the British public was hungry for a hero and Montgomery content to play his role. They lauded him into heaven and still do.

The Soviets had their genius Zhukov, but of course they also glossed over the more unsavoury acts. They exhaled his alleged triumphs, but for decades they kept his costly mistakes secret as if they never had existed to begin with. The Soviets just left them out.

His "optimistic" offensive at Rzhev, nicknamed soberly the "Rzhev Meat Grinder" by veterans, cost the Red Army a million plus casualties without any tangible results. Not without reason, his men called Zhukov the "butcher".


Anyway, my point is, if you look at reality, you will find humans are full of faults and vices, but such doesn't diminish their accomplishment at all. You can be very well compentent and arrogant.

 

[Mechaphobic]

Tullius Shernan Oubeniel - Ouroboros Record ~Circus of Oubeniel~ Dude is fucked up on a whole nother level. He makes many villains feel like playful toddlers in comparison.

Johan Liebert - Monster - This was another really psychotic one, the entire thing was pretty messed up. This is defiantly on my top 10 villains.

Ainz Ooal Goan - Overlord - Dude has committed some serious atrocities. This is another that should be high on any list.


I think Johan is probably the best on the list, he has some of the best evil quotes in anime.

"Hatred is created when people gather. I just poured a little oil over it." Johan Libert.

 

[High-in-the-skys]

Arrogant and competent people are definitely my worst match, personally speaking. I remembered one time about a certain annoying person, the type that could annoy you by their mere precence. One time I got fed up by their boasts that I tried to compete against them with skills. My fault, after losing they poured more oil over my burning anger by being smug about it. When I think back about it, the person definitely knows they're more skilled than me and I hate their precence so they agitated me to a battle I would lose.

If a villain is always competent, then he would never be defeated by the MC. Because usually, villains are, by default, stronger, more powerful\influential than MC.

Hate to break it to you but there are times that despite being better they would fail because they lack "luck". If this is written in a story, people would usually say it's Deus Ex Machina despite their fall being foreshadowed.

Competence and major blunders are not mutually exclusive

Should I add that the more competent you are, the more expectations people put on you and the more impactful a simple failure if you have high expectations or does people already know the implicit subtext and I'm just dumb...

---


Btw sorry for taking a post spot just to say that I'm looking at the villains you people know since I don't think I found something like arrogant and competent villain...

 

[BenJepheneT]

You assume perfection and perfection is not a human trait.

Genius elevates them above the common masses, and genius also makes them fall in the game of high stakes. Critical self-reflection is hard, if not impossible, at such a high level.

Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, they all committed serious blunders due to their hubris, but their competence is nevertheless undeniable.

I could cite even more examples of military leaders that seriously erred.

The prima donna Dugout Doug MacArthur is considered one of America's best generals and war heroes for reasons unknown to the rest of the world despite his atrocious military record. But he was popular at home and in the senate, so they showered him with medals.

Montgomery was a subpar choice, committing mistakes everywhere he went. He was mediocre at best, but the British public was hungry for a hero and Montgomery content to play his role. They lauded him into heaven and still do.

The Soviets had their genius Zhukov, but of course they also glossed over the more unsavoury acts. They exhaled his alleged triumphs, but for decades they kept his costly mistakes secret as if they never had existed to begin with. The Soviets just left them out.

His "optimistic" offensive at Rzhev, nicknamed soberly the "Rzhev Meat Grinder" by veterans, cost the Red Army a million plus casualties without any tangible results. Not without reason, his men called Zhukov the "butcher".


Anyway, my point is, if you look at reality, you will find humans are full of faults and vices, but such doesn't diminish their accomplishment at all. You can be very well compentent and arrogant.

Well therein lies a paradox, isn't there? A truly competent villain would be one that never makes mistake, but that would make a perfect villain, and thus an inhuman one at that.

Of course, those would never exist in the real world. Ego isn't some rock in a path people mostly assume. It's a harmless tumor that only grows with victories and accolades.

However, under the realm of fiction they would certainly exist.

But that'll make a very boring villain, I'd reckon.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Arrogant and competent people are definitely my worst match, personally speaking. I remembered one time about a certain annoying person, the type that could annoy you by their mere precence. One time I got fed up by their boasts that I tried to compete against them with skills. My fault, after losing they poured more oil over my burning anger by being smug about it. When I think back about it, the person definitely knows they're more skilled than me and I hate their precence so they agitated me to a battle I would lose.


Hate to break it to you but there are times that despite being better they would fail because they lack "luck". If this is written in a story, people would usually say it's Deus Ex Machina despite their it being foreshadowed.



Should I add that the more competent you are, the more expectations people put on you and the more impactful a simple failure if you have high expectations or does people already know the implicit subtext and I'm just dumb...

---


Btw sorry for taking a post spot just to say that I'm looking at the villains you people know since I don't think I found something like arrogant and competent villain...

Your statement is correct, but writes from subordinated perspective. I write superordinated perspective, which seems recommendable in the case of villains.

But that aside, both my MC are arrogant competent types, albeit some readers and reviewers object to the competent part.

Well therein lies a paradox, isn't there? A truly competent villain would be one that never makes mistake, but that would make a perfect villain, and thus an inhuman one at that.

Of course, those would never exist in the real world. Ego isn't some rock in a path people mostly assume. It's a harmless tumor that only grows with victories and accolades.

However, under the realm of fiction they would certainly exist.

But that'll make a very boring villain, I'd reckon.

Your point being? Because we seem to agree, Beni.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Arrogant and competent people are definitely my worst match, personally speaking. I remembered one time about a certain annoying person, the type that could annoy you by their mere precence. One time I got fed up by their boasts that I tried to compete against them with skills. My fault, after losing they poured more oil over my burning anger by being smug about it. When I think back about it, the person definitely knows they're more skilled than me and I hate their precence so they agitated me to a battle I would lose.


Hate to break it to you but there are times that despite being better they would fail because they lack "luck". If this is written in a story, people would usually say it's Deus Ex Machina despite their fall being foreshadowed.



Should I add that the more competent you are, the more expectations people put on you and the more impactful a simple failure if you have high expectations or does people already know the implicit subtext and I'm just dumb...

---


Btw sorry for taking a post spot just to say that I'm looking at the villains you people know since I don't think I found something like arrogant and competent villain...

I don't get it where your statement contradicts mine though? Yes, when writing is shit, villains are dealt with due to the plot armor of the MC. When writing is good, it will be because of slip-ups, small negligence that will cause a butterfly effect.

Yet, if a villain is over competent, and there are no slip-ups, nor there is no 'luck' involved, then the MC has no chance of winning. BECAUSE usually villain is more powerful and serves as a stepping stone. If a villain is over-competent, then it's not a stepping stone but a huge wall that stretches up infinitely. It doesn't matter what readers say because the way people see different things differs. Also, almost every villain is foreshadowed to lose. It's web\light novels, manga and so on. The number of works where villains win is negligible. Villains are served to be defeated and used as plot tools. It's just that the villains that are written well, are memorable. They feel like a person, gain a fanbase, and so on.

The point of this thread is to name the villains that lose because of their slip-ups. Not the villains that lose because they are braindead idiots. Nor the villains that are defeated by the plot armor\luck. Villain, that is both arrogant and competent. The one that actually can fight back. OP asked for examples of well-written villains.

Also, I can be wrong here, but when it was mentioned "Villain" the thing that was meant, is the enemy of the mc. If you have a villain MC or an antihero mc, his opponent can be a "hero".