D
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My story gets sexy in chapters 3, 7, 13, and 18, with 3 and 18 being the most sexy. I haven't gotten much feedback yet, so I dunno if they're any good, commercially speaking.
TreasureHouse
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Well since no-one will say it... I will! 
Despite being underwater, chapter three was kind of dry.
18's scene is the same, it's not very savory, but it's there in the story.
Despite being underwater, chapter three was kind of dry.
18's scene is the same, it's not very savory, but it's there in the story.
D
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Thanks for the read and response. It's not erotica so I expect it won't satisfy erotica readers. I guess I'm 'dipping my toes in the waters' as it were. Not sure if this is a direction I want to drive toward or away from.Well since no-one will say it... I will!
Despite being underwater, chapter three was kind of dry.
18's scene is the same, it's not very savory, but it's there in the story.
D
Deleted member 189621
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Since the only feedback I've received has been fairly negative, I've decided to write in a different direction on a different platform. Thanks for your honesty.
sbdrag
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Chapter 3 feels dry because of the way Zeke thinks/talks. He feels very childish - I get you mean for him to be naive, but it's just a bit too far for him to come across as a naive young adult compared to like... a child. I even went back to chapter 1 because I couldn't figure out how old Zeke is supposed to be, and I still don't know because "beating his mother in a duel" isn't a measure of age. He also seems... inconsistently naive, based on chapter 1/3, which is what makes it difficult to place how old he's meant to be. But, to the point - childish speech during a "sexy" scene is... off-putting, to say the least, even when the character using it is an adult.
Chapter 7 isn't terrible, but it's a bit too... you have too much description of the preparation for the quick and more poetic fade to black. You can pretty much go straight from "Reynard was waiting for him naked" to "Darragh gave himself to Reynard" and you'd be good for plot purposes.
Also, "coinnigh" is a verb - it can mean to farm, but it doesn't refer to the location. The term for farm in Irish is feirm.
Continuing with the sex scenes... uh. Well. I'll be honest - I had to reread like three times before I realized what the sexy part was supposed to be in 13. It... mostly just came across as weird, rather than a weird sex thing, specifically? I know I'm missing context skipping around, but, yeah, that was my take.
I have more feedback I could offer, but it's more general story things than specifically about the sex scenes, so let me know if you'd like it and I'll share.
Chapter 7 isn't terrible, but it's a bit too... you have too much description of the preparation for the quick and more poetic fade to black. You can pretty much go straight from "Reynard was waiting for him naked" to "Darragh gave himself to Reynard" and you'd be good for plot purposes.
Also, "coinnigh" is a verb - it can mean to farm, but it doesn't refer to the location. The term for farm in Irish is feirm.
Continuing with the sex scenes... uh. Well. I'll be honest - I had to reread like three times before I realized what the sexy part was supposed to be in 13. It... mostly just came across as weird, rather than a weird sex thing, specifically? I know I'm missing context skipping around, but, yeah, that was my take.
I have more feedback I could offer, but it's more general story things than specifically about the sex scenes, so let me know if you'd like it and I'll share.
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D
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Sure, I'm open to constructive criticism. And thank you for pointing out that coinnigh was used inappropriately. Even gave me the correct replacement. I'll edit that immediately.
Zeke is 20 years old, by the way. He grew up isolated in a cave, hence the heightened naivete.
I'm concluding I need to reshape the first 3 chapters.
Zeke is 20 years old, by the way. He grew up isolated in a cave, hence the heightened naivete.
I'm concluding I need to reshape the first 3 chapters.
sbdrag
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Okay, so, first big thing that takes me out of the story: the naming is too inconsistent in a way that does not make sense. Best example is chapter seven:
We are going to the town of Waterbreak (English) on the island of Safo (which I assume is a play on "Sapphos", Greek) which is in the Vulpen/Vulpex island chain (Latin), where the Church of Adam (Hebrew/common English usage) has taken over and locals have Irish names and the kitsune (Japanese) Rowan (English)/Reynard (French) is going to their friend's feirm (Irish).
I assume you do know the origins of these words, to be clear, but I'm posting it like this to highlight how they are all jumbled together. I gathered from the few chapters I read that this is a multicultural world, which is great! But this is not how multiculturalism works. Especially on what appears to be an isolated island rather than a large city.
The location names for the islands need to align. Isolated islands that are not centers for trade or travel tend to be monocultural. The lore offered suggests these islands have had the same culture for many years - if that culture is Irish, the islands should not have a Latin name for the chain and a Greek name for a specific island. They should have Irish names - you can maintain the fox theme with Irish words for fox like "the island of Sionnach in the Madra Rua Islands" - but I'm also not sure why these islands have a fox naming theme to begin with?
I'm all for thematic naming, but if the "Vulpen" islands don't have a specific history with foxes other than welcoming kitsune, it doesn't really make sense for them to be named for foxes. Were there a lot of foxes on the islands? Are they vaguely shaped like a fox? Why are they named for foxes?
Also with an island named "Safo" I was uh... expecting a wlw scene in a queer story? Sapphos was pretty famously a lesbian, and since you're expecting queer readers, I'm not going to be the last person expecting a wlw scene rather than a mlm scene on the island of "Safo".
Which brings me back to why I suggested aligning everything Irish instead of Latin or Greek - if the locals have Irish names, the islands' culture would more likely be Irish than Greek. (Mixing Latin and Greek isn't as big a thing only because the ancient Greeks did use Latin words, even with Greek as the primary language, so they could mix if your world has a similar history to ours.)
And while having all the island location names match-up with Irish names would make "feirm" continue to make sense... why is Rowan/Reynard using feirm (coinnigh) instead of farm? Like, the word is just the literal translation of "farm" in Irish, so it's not referring to a specific kind of farm, so it sticks out for seeming like an arbitrary usage of a "foreign" word. You don't translate proper nouns for locations when they don't match the language you're writing in, but you would translate common nouns like "farm". You also use feirm and farm interchangeably in the story, so it doesn't feel like Morgan's farm is something special or different from a regular farm, so there's not really a reason to use "feirm" here when you've already established the setting is Irish-coded with Darragh and a few other nods I'm not remembering off the top of my head.
(I don't actually have a critique of Reynard being a French name, since it's specified that Rowan is using an identity not known to the area, so one she made in a different region that still won't stand out much from the locals makes sense. It's just further dissonance when there's several other languages in the mix to contend with. Church of Adam is the same for being specifically noted for being an invading force. You addressed the use of kitsune in chapter one, so that's also fine, since Rowan is not a native of this part of the world.)
The second big thing is that your scenes have no room to breathe, and it gives the reader no sense of setting. Every scene feels like it's rushing to the next bout of dialogue, which leaves me trying to picture where I am and having no idea. Consistent naming will go a long way towards that - if we're on the island of Sionnach where Darragh lives, I can immediately picture an Irish town on the island. The island of Safo where Darragh lives? I have no clear picture unless you paint one for me.
Rowan/Reynard is arriving to the location for the first time in twenty years - have them observed what's changed and/or stayed the same as they make their way to the inn. Give the reader some clues about the architecture and people there - if it's meant to be a mixed community of Greek and Irish culture, the town should reflect that. If an Irish community has moved onto a Greek island, I would expect the old buildings to be Greek with newer Irish buildings. You don't need to go into a huge amount of detail, but if you're set on using multiple languages for the naming of the location, we need a clue as to why that is, otherwise it just feels random instead of intentional.
This happens again in chapter thirteen - Hormiz arrives, we get this big overview of the planet of Nod, and then... nothing on a smaller level. Hormiz wants to wash off the grime of travel - describe what his bathroom at home looks like compared to the ship he left as he introspects about what happened. You describe these grand set pieces like Lilith's throne - but they exist in a vacuum where I have no idea what the rest of the setting looks like. Are the columns surrounding Lilith Greek? Gothic? Fantasy elven? What Hormiz's bathroom, room, and the path to the throne look like will give the reader the context clues to have a clearer view of what kind of world Nod is beyond just the broad overview.
Lilith clearly has a Biblical theme as the Mother of Monsters, Adam's first wife - enhanced by the cainkin surrounding her. I think you are relying too heavily on the assumption that readers will be familiar with these themes, and skipping world-building context you would otherwise supply believing it is built in from the Biblical mythos. Your world is not strictly following Biblical lore, so you need to introduce it to us like we have never heard of Lilith and will not pick up on any of this real-world context, because you are re-contextualizing who Lilith is and what her role in this world is. Especially since most people will not be well versed on the intricacies of Biblical mythos you're pulling from.
I would also say that Hormiz and Zeke do not have a different enough narrative voice - their sections read very similarly, and they have very different backstories, so they shouldn't - even if they are a similar age for plot reasons I did not get to. For example:
Hormiz is, I assume from context, someone who has worldly experience. Someone who leads armies of "loci" to capture enemies. This line makes no sense in that context. This line is naive and childish - Hormiz is meant to be - according to an earlier chapter - around the same age as Zeke. If Hormiz is twenty and has not been sheltered and isolated in the same way as Zeke, his thought process should be more mature and experienced than Zeke. He's clearly got some level of propaganda brain from Lilith, but that doesn't manifest in this level of immaturity.
Which is also the problem with Zeke - again, I understand he's meant to be sheltered and naive, but he sounds like a naive fifteen year old, not a naive twenty year old. And Hormiz's narrative voice sounds exactly the same as Zeke's, when he has a significantly different background. And Zeke sounds just as naive in chapter eighteen as he does in chapter one/three - which is a long time for so little character development.
I feel like you have a very vibrant and intricate story in your head - but I also think your entire story needs a major rewrite to bring the vision in your head to life for people who are not in your head and not seeing it the way you see it. I did jump around a lot, so I tried to focus on things that I didn't think would have been covered in other chapters and happened in all the chapters I did read. It feels like there are a lot of details you know that are not making it onto the page because the story is so familiar to you that they seem obvious, but aren't to someone new to the story, so a dedicated beta reader to go through the story with no prior knowledge of the plot could benefit you a lot.
Sorry that's a lot, but I do hope it's helpful!
We are going to the town of Waterbreak (English) on the island of Safo (which I assume is a play on "Sapphos", Greek) which is in the Vulpen/Vulpex island chain (Latin), where the Church of Adam (Hebrew/common English usage) has taken over and locals have Irish names and the kitsune (Japanese) Rowan (English)/Reynard (French) is going to their friend's feirm (Irish).
I assume you do know the origins of these words, to be clear, but I'm posting it like this to highlight how they are all jumbled together. I gathered from the few chapters I read that this is a multicultural world, which is great! But this is not how multiculturalism works. Especially on what appears to be an isolated island rather than a large city.
The location names for the islands need to align. Isolated islands that are not centers for trade or travel tend to be monocultural. The lore offered suggests these islands have had the same culture for many years - if that culture is Irish, the islands should not have a Latin name for the chain and a Greek name for a specific island. They should have Irish names - you can maintain the fox theme with Irish words for fox like "the island of Sionnach in the Madra Rua Islands" - but I'm also not sure why these islands have a fox naming theme to begin with?
I'm all for thematic naming, but if the "Vulpen" islands don't have a specific history with foxes other than welcoming kitsune, it doesn't really make sense for them to be named for foxes. Were there a lot of foxes on the islands? Are they vaguely shaped like a fox? Why are they named for foxes?
Also with an island named "Safo" I was uh... expecting a wlw scene in a queer story?
Sapphos was pretty famously a lesbian, and since you're expecting queer readers, I'm not going to be the last person expecting a wlw scene rather than a mlm scene on the island of "Safo".Which brings me back to why I suggested aligning everything Irish instead of Latin or Greek - if the locals have Irish names, the islands' culture would more likely be Irish than Greek. (Mixing Latin and Greek isn't as big a thing only because the ancient Greeks did use Latin words, even with Greek as the primary language, so they could mix if your world has a similar history to ours.)
And while having all the island location names match-up with Irish names would make "feirm" continue to make sense... why is Rowan/Reynard using feirm (coinnigh) instead of farm? Like, the word is just the literal translation of "farm" in Irish, so it's not referring to a specific kind of farm, so it sticks out for seeming like an arbitrary usage of a "foreign" word. You don't translate proper nouns for locations when they don't match the language you're writing in, but you would translate common nouns like "farm". You also use feirm and farm interchangeably in the story, so it doesn't feel like Morgan's farm is something special or different from a regular farm, so there's not really a reason to use "feirm" here when you've already established the setting is Irish-coded with Darragh and a few other nods I'm not remembering off the top of my head.
(I don't actually have a critique of Reynard being a French name, since it's specified that Rowan is using an identity not known to the area, so one she made in a different region that still won't stand out much from the locals makes sense. It's just further dissonance when there's several other languages in the mix to contend with. Church of Adam is the same for being specifically noted for being an invading force. You addressed the use of kitsune in chapter one, so that's also fine, since Rowan is not a native of this part of the world.)
The second big thing is that your scenes have no room to breathe, and it gives the reader no sense of setting. Every scene feels like it's rushing to the next bout of dialogue, which leaves me trying to picture where I am and having no idea. Consistent naming will go a long way towards that - if we're on the island of Sionnach where Darragh lives, I can immediately picture an Irish town on the island. The island of Safo where Darragh lives? I have no clear picture unless you paint one for me.
Rowan/Reynard is arriving to the location for the first time in twenty years - have them observed what's changed and/or stayed the same as they make their way to the inn. Give the reader some clues about the architecture and people there - if it's meant to be a mixed community of Greek and Irish culture, the town should reflect that. If an Irish community has moved onto a Greek island, I would expect the old buildings to be Greek with newer Irish buildings. You don't need to go into a huge amount of detail, but if you're set on using multiple languages for the naming of the location, we need a clue as to why that is, otherwise it just feels random instead of intentional.
This happens again in chapter thirteen - Hormiz arrives, we get this big overview of the planet of Nod, and then... nothing on a smaller level. Hormiz wants to wash off the grime of travel - describe what his bathroom at home looks like compared to the ship he left as he introspects about what happened. You describe these grand set pieces like Lilith's throne - but they exist in a vacuum where I have no idea what the rest of the setting looks like. Are the columns surrounding Lilith Greek? Gothic? Fantasy elven? What Hormiz's bathroom, room, and the path to the throne look like will give the reader the context clues to have a clearer view of what kind of world Nod is beyond just the broad overview.
Lilith clearly has a Biblical theme as the Mother of Monsters, Adam's first wife - enhanced by the cainkin surrounding her. I think you are relying too heavily on the assumption that readers will be familiar with these themes, and skipping world-building context you would otherwise supply believing it is built in from the Biblical mythos. Your world is not strictly following Biblical lore, so you need to introduce it to us like we have never heard of Lilith and will not pick up on any of this real-world context, because you are re-contextualizing who Lilith is and what her role in this world is. Especially since most people will not be well versed on the intricacies of Biblical mythos you're pulling from.
I would also say that Hormiz and Zeke do not have a different enough narrative voice - their sections read very similarly, and they have very different backstories, so they shouldn't - even if they are a similar age for plot reasons I did not get to. For example:
Hormiz is, I assume from context, someone who has worldly experience. Someone who leads armies of "loci" to capture enemies. This line makes no sense in that context. This line is naive and childish - Hormiz is meant to be - according to an earlier chapter - around the same age as Zeke. If Hormiz is twenty and has not been sheltered and isolated in the same way as Zeke, his thought process should be more mature and experienced than Zeke. He's clearly got some level of propaganda brain from Lilith, but that doesn't manifest in this level of immaturity.
Which is also the problem with Zeke - again, I understand he's meant to be sheltered and naive, but he sounds like a naive fifteen year old, not a naive twenty year old. And Hormiz's narrative voice sounds exactly the same as Zeke's, when he has a significantly different background. And Zeke sounds just as naive in chapter eighteen as he does in chapter one/three - which is a long time for so little character development.
I feel like you have a very vibrant and intricate story in your head - but I also think your entire story needs a major rewrite to bring the vision in your head to life for people who are not in your head and not seeing it the way you see it. I did jump around a lot, so I tried to focus on things that I didn't think would have been covered in other chapters and happened in all the chapters I did read. It feels like there are a lot of details you know that are not making it onto the page because the story is so familiar to you that they seem obvious, but aren't to someone new to the story, so a dedicated beta reader to go through the story with no prior knowledge of the plot could benefit you a lot.
Sorry that's a lot, but I do hope it's helpful!
Last edited:
CharlesEBrown
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Bout
Lilith is from the Torah, one of the sections (Kabballah IIRC) not included in the Bible, and is "purely" Jewish - though she was also "adopted" by the Greeks (as I found out checking what I thought was a mistake on Supernatural) so, she fits in here regardless.
Theresaisnotmenhera
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sbdrag
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I misspelled the word
While classically she is purely Jewish a lot of recent Christian/Catholic media has also begun to adopt her in a broader context, so many do see her as a "Biblical" figure in the modern era. (Though it is based on a misunderstanding.)
OP states in their synopsis they are using "Biblical" mythos, and with the inclusion of Cain and Adam, I already figured the story was leaning more Biblical before I saw that part of the blurb. But my point was not whether or not she belonged in the world, which already pulls from multiple mythologies by including kitsune, but that this story is a fantasy world that is pulling on real world religious mythology, and that I felt OP was not explaining Lilith within the context of their story's mythos enough for the reader and perhaps relying too much on the reader to be aware of the real world context of Lilith instead.
D
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I explain Lilith in Chapter 1. I appreciate the time you spent sharing your feedback, but I'm afraid it wasn't helpful. I'm looking for constructive feedback to sharpen my story, not change its identity entirely. But thank you regardless. You've given me quite a bit to think on.
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Theresaisnotmenhera
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It is more so that I was the one tagged in the quote, and clicking on it leads to my comment in another thread.