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Now, Paul is filling the void of a God, albeit a man-made one. His drinking of the water of life is that experience by his Mother, who described the experience as transferring the pain of thousands of years.

@Anon2024 what brand of Christianity did you get? I got the Catholic kind

also, can you elaborate a bit? I will pause my word vomit lol

I was kind of saying that Robert Herbert had a negative view of Catholic Christianity, and thus was making Paul into a messenic figure who did things like “Christ did” such as the transfer of memories “sins” and the “dying” but he twisted a few things around as a mockery of religion in general.

Water of life being the “sin itself” when biblically it was the word of god.

Also, quick summary as I’ve already probably talked too much: I view Spice as a limited future predicted by the sensibilities of the human minds’ unlocked through the past, which is larger exclusive of those outside of the Bene Gesserit core, which leads to a limited future prediction that is not a true Omniscient vision into the future, causing issues with Paul’s position as God and Messiah

The movement of the missionaries is a reflection on Christian’s going around the world and spreading religion, however he basically claims their belief in a messiah was a bastardization of the original intent of the religion which he seems to believe was to “control people” and Paul’s now coincidental control is kind of how manipulation gave unintended consequences.

@Anon2024 I can agree on that, I just view Paul as having important differentiations from a Christ-figure due to the later pursuit of violence rather than acceptance of martyrdom (specifically at the turning point of entering the fundamentalist South)

For me spice is described as what lets the mutated human navigators predict where a ship will end up after it does a warp jump.

back to topic:
The idea is that religion changes based on where it is practiced. The dune planet is far different than other planets where there is plenty of water.

just like Islam worships “allah” but it’s from the same root of what historians refer as zionism

So I kind of see Dune as a mockery of religion more so than anything else.

@Anon2024 I actually agree with everything you’ve said so far, I just view Paul’s reliance on the Spice and visions to be falling into the trap of fulfilling the Bene Gesserits’ plans while attempting to thwart the empire (…who is basically controlled by the Bene Gesserits)

Correction: I meant Spice + Water of life leading to vision things^

I think that Paul is limited by his reliance on future visions and that martyrdom would have had a more positive overall effect on humanity. A God-figure cannot live among people, as it breeds over reliance on said figure and leads to tyranny.

I believe that much of Catholicism’s tenets missed in Paul’s rise to power was a need for humans to earn godliness through strict adherence to a moral code of conduct that can be influenced over time (as a form of manipulation of the populace)

The more violent approach will leave a power vacuum in his wake that I believe is just as dangerous as the Bene Gesserit’s chokehold

Perhaps, but honestly that’s all speculation.

Im from a more Protestant background where we believe the people Christ changes will be born anew and those who go to hell will simply stop existing. No immortality of the soul.

Hence Dune’s take on the messiah is more of a “false messiah” in my world view despite the author’s intentions.

We don’t believe that God living with people will cause tyranny because the “water of life” means everlasting resources.

It’s more of a state of heaven where sin itself is completely destroyed because God is a perfect ruler rather than an imperfect mistake ridden mortal who needs people to fight for him.

While this probably was not the author’s original intent.

I find Dune summarizes the end times struggle for power where false messiahs will perform miracles and take power for their own personal gains.

@Anon2024 Interesting! I believe more in the eternal struggle to attain a state of goodness and the necessity of a life well-lived to gain immortality. I’ve come to peace with myself and my religion with the explicit acknowledgment that I may end up being wrong in the end regarding any or all of my beliefs, but that my methods ought to create good in both my and other’s lives

It’s really interesting to me as well because I view Heaven as something completely after death, completely unable to be attained on an earthly level before the natural end of the world (I believe we will attain a scientific end of worlds before a religious one), and as such I view any promises of unending resources made in a planet-based story such as Dune to be complete and total hogwash

I don’t trust Dune’s spice and water of life, I don’t trust their religious practices, I don’t trust their promises

I see. Well, I’m not an all-knowing being so I can’t prove anything I say. I also for my vices (lesbian smut), so even if I try not to be I’m still not a pure practitioner of my own religion.