Are books on writing any good?

Hello everyone.

I'm considering buying "Steering the Craft" to improve my writing. Would you recommend it, especially for someone who is developing their style? And are there any things I should keep in mind while working through it?

Thanks in advance.

I've not read that one, two I've read are;
-self editing for fiction writers
-style, towards clarity and grace

Let me know how you get along with yours!

SouthernMaiden said:

I've not read that one, two I've read are;
-self editing for fiction writers
-style, towards clarity and grace

Let me know how you get along with yours!

Click to expand...

If you buy it!

What style are you developing?

SouthernMaiden said:

I've not read that one, two I've read are;
-self editing for fiction writers
-style, towards clarity and grace

Let me know how you get along with yours!

If you buy it!

Click to expand...

How was your experience with those in general?

Madkins said:

What style are you developing?

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to develop a style forcefully, but when I write comfortably, it's usually on the literary, psychological side. That is, if I write in my native language. When it comes to writing in English, I'm still a baby, which is why I'm hesitant.

Lufli said:

Hello everyone.

I'm considering buying "Steering the Craft" to improve my writing. Would you recommend it, especially for someone who is developing their style? And are there any things I should keep in mind while working through it?

Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

It is not likely to hurt your writing, and may improve it. However, if you are looking for advice there are many free resources online, and if you are looking at getting better targeted practice followed by useful feedback/criticism of that practice will always be best. Feel free to experiment, but use that experimentation to hone your storycraft.

Lufli said:

How was your experience with those in general?

I'm not trying to develop a style forcefully, but when I write comfortably, it's usually on the literary, psychological side. That is, if I write in my native language. When it comes to writing in English, I'm still a baby, which is why I'm hesitant.

Click to expand...

Practice will make perfect, also don’t use AI to rewrite your work even if it looks better. 1 it harms your ability to improve at writing in English, and 2 it harms your credibility with the reader more than any poor grammar could. Practice and feedback will be the best option, and the book may work as a guide or accelerant to that practice. However, if you are not constantly practicing and experimenting you may backslide or stagnate in your craft. At least, imo.

Lufli said:

How was your experience with those in general?

I'm not trying to develop a style forcefully, but when I write comfortably, it's usually on the literary, psychological side. That is, if I write in my native language. When it comes to writing in English, I'm still a baby, which is why I'm hesitant.

Click to expand...

For Style, you can find it at the following Link. The versions on amazon are really expensive now for some reason...so dont get the book there

Anyway, its a slim volume. Goes over the essentials on writing clear and effective prose. Its pretty great, no matter your skill level. Ive read it like twice, and reference it a fair amount when writing

The self editing one is also great. Really easy read. I would recommend.

Ive read a couple other books on writing, but they were nor great...and not specific enough in their advice.
Above all. I would recommend critique.

Like, I understand having your story critiqued can suck. So write something that you would feel comfortable if someone says something harsh about it.

But, I've in classes ive had personal essays critiqued and critiqued other peoples essays and its really helpful.

YukieSama said:

Reddit post with some of the exercises. It's missing examples though which is vital.

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Thank you very much. Even without examples, I have an overview of the content.

ElijahRyne said:

Practice will make perfect, also don’t use AI to rewrite your work even if it looks better. 1 it harms your ability to improve at writing in English, and 2 it harms your credibility with the reader more than any poor grammar could. Practice and feedback will be the best option, and the book may work as a guide or accelerant to that practice. However, if you are not constantly practicing and experimenting you may backslide or stagnate in your craft. At least, imo.

Click to expand...

I'll keep that in mind, going forward. Generally, I don't use AI (anymore) to rewrite my work, as it weakens my voice. In the beginning, I asked the AI to point out weak sentences to have direction while editing and improving. Now, I'm trying to find these sentences on my own, as it's an important skill. I seem to struggle with clarity and 'overloaded' sentences. Still, I think you're right.
If I buy the book, I will give my best to practice deliberately.

SouthernMaiden said:

For Style, you can find it at the following Link. The versions on amazon are really expensive now for some reason...so dont get the book there

Anyway, its a slim volume. Goes over the essentials on writing clear and effective prose. Its pretty great, no matter your skill level. Ive read it like twice, and reference it a fair amount when writing

The self editing one is also great. Really easy read. I would recommend.

Ive read a couple other books on writing, but they were nor great...and not specific enough in their advice.
Above all. I would recommend critique.

Like, I understand having your story critiqued can suck. So write something that you would feel comfortable if someone says something harsh about it.

But, I've in classes ive had personal essays critiqued and critiqued other peoples essays and its really helpful.

Click to expand...

Okay, thank you for sharing. I don't think I got the gambling reference, sorry....

I've only really read, The Elements of Style, to make sure at the baseline that the text is readable.

Nobody Wants to Read Your Sh*t: Why That Is and What You Can Do About It, for a basic workflow and when to implement things.

I would suggest going for a storytelling book. Because whatever you write, it is going to be for an audience. You need to know how to portray the set of events in a smooth intermingled fashion. Even in writing something concrete like Nonfiction there are still beats that need to be followed. Even a mess of ideas like the Harry Potter books can be carried by great storytelling.

Also, annas-archive is your friend.

They teach you the basics, the formatting and the mindset. They teach you prose, structure and skills. If your question is only "Are they good?" The answer would be "Absolutely yes, they are amazing."

But you should also need to know the specifics of what you want to ask. Such as "Can this book teach me grammar?" or "Can this book teach me how to write good dialogues?" or "Can this book teach how to write with proper structure instead of doing whatever goes as is common in web novels and serials?" or "Can this book teach me how to write a novel?"

Strictly speaking, any book you read is good for writing. Now, if you're talking about Ursula K Le Guin's book, if you can afford it and can finish reading it, it will certainly benefit you. It's better to read it than not. The problem however, among Gen Z and later, is whether or not you can finish reading it. You see, Ursula K Le Guin's books are all slower paced and philosophical, rather than action-packed, the kind that the new generation falls asleep on. The Earthsea books is one of Ai-chan's most favourite books, but to the younger generation, it's boring because there's no flashy magic fighting or people slicing each other with swords.

But let's talk about the book you mentioned specifically.

This book teaches you prose, rhythm and pacing, rather than plot or story. What this means is, you will be playing with a lot of theories and philosophies of writing, not on how to make the actions more pummeling. It focuses on prose and voice, the syntax of saying, "I did THIS!" instead of "I did this." It teaches you about the narrative voice and emotions.

But there are problems.

If you're just starting to write, this book is a bad idea. Sure you can learn, but if you're new, everything you learn will just fly over your head. You won't understand it, you won't be able to practice it, and as a result you will either think it's a horrible book or you will be demotivated. Even for amateur authors who have put out a few stories to share, it isn't easy to get what the book tries to say. This book is not for newbies, try something easier.

If you're trying to write a book that sells, as in you're hoping for commercial success, much of what was written in this book will be something that you disagree on. This book, like Ursula herself, writes about stories that inspire, stories that argue about philosophy, to teach different points of views. If you try to write the next Harry Potter or Twilight, this book will not help you. If you want to write Lord of the Rings, this would have minimal values as well as it doesn't teach you about world building, just how to write emotions, philosophy and multiple point of views.

The examples and perspectives of the book is also kind of dated. It teaches you how to write a story following the style of the 80s and 90s. You can tell that Ursula is from a completely different generation from what she taught in this book.

Additionally, if you're thinking of reading it and 'getting better', stop. This is not that kind of book. This is an exercise book. Once you start, you can't stop until you have finished your lesson. You need to read this with the approach of attending a writing workshop, not as something you do on your free time after school or work. This book requires extreme engagement, anything less would not be very useful for you.

p/s: If you can't even finish reading Ai-chan's post here, this book is very definitely, absolutely definitely, not for you.

Some are good for learning techniques and understanding grammar but not all are good for understanding how you write.

Are we allowed to write our own of this here? I mean, as a scribblehub book.
Not sure if it's against rules since there is no non-fiction genre

Ai-chan said:

If you're trying to write a book that sells, as in you're hoping for commercial success, much of what was written in this book will be something that you disagree on. This book, like Ursula herself, writes about stories that inspire, stories that argue about philosophy, to teach different points of views. If you try to write the next Harry Potter or Twilight, this book will not help you. If you want to write Lord of the Rings, this would have minimal values as well as it doesn't teach you about world building, just how to write emotions, philosophy and multiple point of views.

The examples and perspectives of the book is also kind of dated. It teaches you how to write a story following the style of the 80s and 90s. You can tell that Ursula is from a completely different generation from what she taught in this book.

Click to expand...

this kind of says it all.
I grew up with a sort of "vintage paperback" library in the basement and another one at my grandparent's basement.
to me, that's "real writing" for paperbacks.
So basically, I'm doomed.

the only mild interest I've managed to generate? Is with an all-out smut-fest.
I used it to *lure* the reader in, to what gradually turns into a "real" story.
a dark noir, hard boil crime thing.

Thank you all for the insights.

Ai-chan said:

They teach you the basics, the formatting and the mindset. They teach you prose, structure and skills. If your question is only "Are they good?" The answer would be "Absolutely yes, they are amazing."

But you should also need to know the specifics of what you want to ask. Such as "Can this book teach me grammar?" or "Can this book teach me how to write good dialogues?" or "Can this book teach how to write with proper structure instead of doing whatever goes as is common in web novels and serials?" or "Can this book teach me how to write a novel?"

Strictly speaking, any book you read is good for writing. Now, if you're talking about Ursula K Le Guin's book, if you can afford it and can finish reading it, it will certainly benefit you. It's better to read it than not. The problem however, among Gen Z and later, is whether or not you can finish reading it. You see, Ursula K Le Guin's books are all slower paced and philosophical, rather than action-packed, the kind that the new generation falls asleep on. The Earthsea books is one of Ai-chan's most favourite books, but to the younger generation, it's boring because there's no flashy magic fighting or people slicing each other with swords.

But let's talk about the book you mentioned specifically.

This book teaches you prose, rhythm and pacing, rather than plot or story. What this means is, you will be playing with a lot of theories and philosophies of writing, not on how to make the actions more pummeling. It focuses on prose and voice, the syntax of saying, "I did THIS!" instead of "I did this." It teaches you about the narrative voice and emotions.

But there are problems.

If you're just starting to write, this book is a bad idea. Sure you can learn, but if you're new, everything you learn will just fly over your head. You won't understand it, you won't be able to practice it, and as a result you will either think it's a horrible book or you will be demotivated. Even for amateur authors who have put out a few stories to share, it isn't easy to get what the book tries to say. This book is not for newbies, try something easier.

If you're trying to write a book that sells, as in you're hoping for commercial success, much of what was written in this book will be something that you disagree on. This book, like Ursula herself, writes about stories that inspire, stories that argue about philosophy, to teach different points of views. If you try to write the next Harry Potter or Twilight, this book will not help you. If you want to write Lord of the Rings, this would have minimal values as well as it doesn't teach you about world building, just how to write emotions, philosophy and multiple point of views.

The examples and perspectives of the book is also kind of dated. It teaches you how to write a story following the style of the 80s and 90s. You can tell that Ursula is from a completely different generation from what she taught in this book.

Additionally, if you're thinking of reading it and 'getting better', stop. This is not that kind of book. This is an exercise book. Once you start, you can't stop until you have finished your lesson. You need to read this with the approach of attending a writing workshop, not as something you do on your free time after school or work. This book requires extreme engagement, anything less would not be very useful for you.

p/s: If you can't even finish reading Ai-chan's post here, this book is very definitely, absolutely definitely, not for you.

Click to expand...

Is there another book you would recommend? First of all, I want to improve the technical part of my writing, then I'll focus on how to structure a story. And if I spend money on something, I usually make sure to get the most benefit out of it. I appreciate the detailed answer!

I read older stuff, and that once or twice included what the OLDER generation said about creative writing.

today? we need to be writers, sure.

we need to be editors.
we need to be proofreaders.
we need to be line editors.
we need to be out own beta readers.
we need to be our own alpha readers.
we need to be market analysts.
we need to be advertising geniuses.
we need to be public relations experts.
we need to be experts in media buzz creation.
we need to be covert artists or cover art experts.
we need to be typography experts.
we need to now be "meta" experts and theorists.

what the hell ever happened to just w-r-i-t-i-n-g

I remember the older generation held that...
have a good story to tell. Be passionate about telling that story.
the rest was "fixable" and editors and proofreaders had a job to do, too.
writers who were brave enough, let you see their (famous author) rough draft...
and then what the finished product read like.
NIGHT and DAY.

today? advice is all over the place.
even to the point of often being contradictory.
both sides have equally compelling reasons.
how did we get here.

TinaMigarlo said:

I read older stuff, and that once or twice included what the OLDER generation said about creative writing.

today? we need to be writers, sure.

we need to be editors.
we need to be proofreaders.
we need to be line editors.
we need to be out own beta readers.
we need to be our own alpha readers.
we need to be market analysts.
we need to be advertising geniuses.
we need to be public relations experts.
we need to be experts in media buzz creation.
we need to be covert artists or cover art experts.
we need to be typography experts.
we need to now be "meta" experts and theorists.

what the hell ever happened to just w-r-i-t-i-n-g

I remember the older generation held that...
have a good story to tell. Be passionate about telling that story.
the rest was "fixable" and editors and proofreaders had a job to do, too.
writers who were brave enough, let you see their (famous author) rough draft...
and then what the finished product read like.
NIGHT and DAY.

today? advice is all over the place.
even to the point of often being contradictory.
both sides have equally compelling reasons.
how did we get here.

Click to expand...

Playing devil advocates here but LLM can be a solution to some of those problems. Maybe not the ones currently in use but definitely in the future. So hopefully it comes full circle.

Lufli said:

Thank you all for the insights.



Is there another book you would recommend? First of all, I want to improve the technical part of my writing, then I'll focus on how to structure a story. And if I spend money on something, I usually make sure to get the most benefit out of it. I appreciate the detailed answer!

Click to expand...

Try the legendary book, Save the Cat! This book is more about how to craft scenes that will make readers/viewers fall in love with your characters. It started as a practical guide to writing a film script, but now it also has a format for novel.

Of course, even legendary book is not immune to criticism; as the guide becomes a kind of norm, the formula can feel generic and clichéd. The book merely offers practical guidance, but creativity is entirely the author's responsibility.

Eldoria said:

Try the legendary book, Save the Cat! This book is more about how to craft scenes that will make readers/viewers fall in love with your characters. It started as a practical guide to writing a film script, but now it also has a format for novel.

Of course, even legendary book is not immune to criticism; as the guide becomes a kind of norm, the formula can feel generic and clichéd. The book merely offers practical guidance, but creativity is entirely the author's responsibility.

Click to expand...

I'll check it out.

YukieSama said:

Playing devil advocates here but LLM can be a solution to some of those problems. Maybe not the ones currently in use but definitely in the future. So hopefully it comes full circle.

Click to expand...

i see this all as a solution in search of a problem. I mean, tell me how WACKY this sounds. Writer's write, editors edit. Publishers? Publish. Artists, do art. Everyone does their job, the WAY they're supposed to do it. READERS have a job, too. To pick the winners and the losers and the in-between. The way the system got warped to act by this stage of the game? agents and publishers all have some sort of agenda. You can argue what that agenda is or is not, but its clear there's something. Self publishing, is the natural push back against what the system turned into. That's not perfect either, you get a deluge. Agents and publishers were supposed to filter quality. When they started doing whatever else it is they decided to do, the self publishing grew. It enjoyed its golden age, and now you see the changes creeping back in.

Honestly, If we went back in time, to say 1980 or 1990. And I told you I had been to the future, and... you'd swear I was nuts. See, this is my complain with your so called "system". We have problems? Oh, well... LLM will be the solution, eventually. Gee. What was wrong with the system that WORKED. Who broke it. Go BACK to when things were sane, that's the sane choice. Oh no. We change things, things start to screw up. Oh, we'll change it more to fix it... things get weirder. Now we change change change furiously, and what else happens.

As an excellent example? I had a strange exchange with a writer here not long ago. It was very illuminating. I complimented the writer, on their... what to me, was their huge success. I want tips, go figure. One thing that came out of that conversation... you want numbers? You want to top charts? You need two things, because views are chart topping, period. They said it. You need a GREAT cover, and a GREAT blurb. The rest, really didn't matter. Though if that was quality, so much the better, your numbers could then go into the stratosphere.

As crass as that sounded to me, I sat and thought about it. It made strange sense, but sense none the less. You get the best cover, the best blurb. You will get that click. They got their click, which is their view. I have to try to read the first chapter, and if its poop, who cares. They just got their read in, too. I can see the value of being told, other places, less than politely there, but still the same message. writing and quality is the last thing you worry about for success by the numbers.

now granted, getting patreon paypiggies lined up, you need writing that the reader wants to read, I'll grant you.

This all goes contrary to me and my experiences reading all those vintage paperbacks. Being in dad's basement, grandpap's basement. That was a book store, it was just free. Until I had an idea of a genre then an author in that genre I liked already... what do I do. I looked at covers, sure. But the title, the cover, only meant so much. The long blurb on the back cover, that was key. There was usually a bigger longer blurb, inside the front cover or on the jacket.

Here? I get told again and again. My blurb has to be SHORT. I have to tell the reader EXACTLY what to expect. And yes, the (generic) you must make the reader connect emotionally and care with the story and the MC. All in a couple sentences.

That's not my experience with vintage paperbacks. they didn't spoiler and outline the story. The back cover, tended to be what I thought of as "tantalize me". Example...

Its the far future, and its not been kind to humanity. Chaos and violence have crept back in despite all the technological advances the human race has created. The machines that once served us now control everything and everyone, and there's no way out. Until now. One man, thinks he might have found a way, but he might have to be willing to die to see it have a chance. He'll have to decide if the quixotic woman he's entranced with is helping him or part of that system he's raging against. But with both an imminent alien invasion and another doomsday clock ticking furiously alongside that catastrophe... he decides he has no choice.

Now. Here we go. That, would remind me of a "typical" sci fi action back cover. The inside longer blurb, would be a "sample" of some exciting paragraph or three. All... tantalize. Whet my appetite.

But I can guess what I would get told here reviewing my blurb.
Meh. Why do I care about this MC. Tell me his name. Tell me exactly what's going on. This... ooh, its big, its important... its crap.

Now, the cover? Sure ,a cover gets a quick grab and look. Today a click. The title does some of that, too. But... those 1970s covers, they tended to be "watercolor" art and weird. I really didn't like the covers, lol. I had to depend on the blurb and the sample. And this whole "first sentence, must put the MC in peril ! Immediately !" that wasn't always done, either. Or i'd flip thru the book and stop on a few random pages, read a paragraph here and there.

By the 80s, the watercolors I hated, had gone over to I guess graphical images. My signature? It reminds me of a cover I might have expected in the 80s. The blurbs had more "power words", but they were similar. Tantalize, don't spoiler the whole thing.

and this whole "e-motionally connect me, in one sentence, to the character and make me care... while you tell me exactly what will go on..." I never had a sense of that. My sense of it all, was I was being given an exciting premise or conflict. Here's this big exciting THING. Read me? You get to see this all unfold. You get to discover what all this is.

Then the stories and the writing style changes on top of everything? Its a shock to the system, I tell you, to just wander into web-novel land one day. I keep saying it, I'm like some isekai'd time traveler, because of my growing up with all the vintage paperbacks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Eldoria

save the cat.
hero's journey.
and don't forget "the Fantasy Fiction Formula" book. (its not just for fantasy)

FFF is available as a *free* PDF download, if anyone's interested in that one. The author admits that "screen writing" advice is good writing advice.

I have often wondered if I should try hero's journey or save the cat "outline" they provide to write to.