Gay Characters in Fiction

You know what? I'm starting to feel like my answer is the only one in this thread that actually talks about craft. Like, no hard feelings at all, quite a few of you are fun to be around, and I mean it, but so far a lot of you are circling the same safe orbit with stuff like being subtle, don't make it their whole personality, avoid warping the story around it, or force it out to being the only relevance to the plot.

That's all... what is it... I think it is thematic positioning. None of you are wrong. It's just... broad. Defensive. Hell, it's even almost anxious.

What I said? That response was on the focus to behavioral cues. From my perspective, unlike the lecturing on "Don't be cringe", I suggested something that's actually writing.

What I'm saying is orientation isn't something the writer declares. Better hell not be. What it should be is something readers infer through character gaze direction, their hesitation, that proximity or even avoidance, some posture shifts, and if we got access to it, the internal friction.

That's dramatically stronger than what else I've read here because it treats sexuality as part of the character's perceptual system, not a label stamped on their forehead.

And about the shyness angle? Avoidance. Yeah, that can signal just as much as boldness. Attraction doesn't always announce itself with swagger. Sometimes it hides in the micro-moment where a character looks away too fast. That kind of signal gives the readers a bit of participation; the reader connects dots.

Now, so that this isn't just some complaint post, I'm going to push the envelope a bit. Eye movement alone is just craft texture, but those peepers moving while including internal consequence will also bridge character depth.

You know what I mean? If not, I'll break it down.

So, does the character looking at this person risk exposure or does not looking hurt? Maybe the attraction is socially dangerous in this novel's world or perhaps the character is completely unaware of what they're signaling? That's actually pretty sweet to think about.

See? I'm gonna be an arrogant ass with this next comment, but I believe in it: that's where these cues becomes art instead of just subtlety.

This thread, though? Overall, it has been obsessed with what I commented earlier; "Don't be cringe."

Again, that ain't wrong, but it's getting old enough that having to say it is now cringe.

These days, Gay and Lesbians are over-represented and overrated in non Gay/Lesbian fictions, in my opinion.

ACertainPassingUser said:

These days, Gay and Lesbians are over-represented and overrated in non Gay/Lesbian fictions, in my opinion.

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Is there even such a thing as Gay fiction

ACertainPassingUser said:

These days, Gay and Lesbians are over-represented and overrated in non Gay/Lesbian fictions, in my opinion.

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I'd give you a laughing reaction, like I'd be giving the rest of the folks here a reaction, if I wasn't capped out... again. See?



But your opinion there... that's like the equivalent of someone storming into a painting critique and saying, "I hate blue paint, it's overused." Yeah, technically true, it is. Sure. I personally believe that started becoming diluted when Ellen DeGeneres came out in that sitcom. But is that opinion useful? Not at all.

My approach boils down to 'don't be a coward'.
Like yes, avoid weird stereotypes, make the characters feel like real people, but as far as bigots are concerned, every gay character is already 'propaganda' and 'preachy', so why bother coddling their fragile egos? If in a contemporary setting, your character can 100% attend Pride parades or deal with unfair systems that still bar them from many rights other people freely enjoy, maybe even have their arc revolve around them challenging these systems.
Straight characters don't have to deal with the need for 'subtlety', so why should gay characters do it differently?

Fisher0001 said:

Just wondering what, in your opinion, makes a gay character work in a piece of fiction, and what makes the writing not work as a work of art? Give me your thoughts and opinions.

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For me, Art is about how much soul you pour it into your craft. The writing might not work as an art if you're forced to make it. So, if you enjoy create gay character for your writing just do it.

I've written plenty of LGBT+ characters, and I just write them like any other character. But I do take the setting and their backstory into consideration for how they act and feel. A character living in a homophobic world isn't going to hold hands with their partner in public, and a character taught that being gay is wrong might feel shame around their feelings. Likewise, someone living in an open-minded world with supportive friends and family won't be all that different from a straight person.

JordanIda said:

Love this, love it. So, so true.

Can't stand webnovel attempts at homosexual intimacy. In mainstream trade (what is left of it), editors rein this in, but there's no peer or editorial review in places like this. The result: gay and lesbian intimacy almost always reads like a triple-x porn clip and has no bearing on reality. Why, oh why, do gay couples always go to anal? Why?

Here's a pro tip, people: most hetero couples can be aroused by the thought of it. With the right partner and when conditions are right, they can be aroused by reading about it, or by watching professionals perform it, But that doesn't mean most hetero couples do it themselves! Most hetero couples go through their lives without ever actually doing it. Why? Because it hurts. And it's dirty. Professional clips use dozens of takes, with rests, health checks, safe words, lubrication, irrigation, and so on. It's entertainment. Most couples go through life without ever actually trying it at home!

Writers: what makes you think it's any different between homosexual men? It hurts between men, too. It's dirty for men, too. Gay men do not rush to home plate. Most go through their lives without doing more than thinking about it and being aroused by it. Just like heterosexuals.

And don't even get me started on women fisting women.

So, another reason why gay characters don't work: in real life, most gay men and lesbians are not professional porn stars. They are people.

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I have heard a theory that gay people are just different/unknown enough for horny straight people to like to project fantasies onto them when it’s convenient.

Girl on Girl with strap on (or futa) is hot because guys can have their smut without any guys involved. They just have one of the girls do guy things like having a real or simulated penis. Just girls being dudes in a heterosexual manner.

Then we have “true” Yaoi that gets its name from a Japanese phrase meaning “no climax, no point, no meaning” and is explicitly to titillate women. Specifically straight women. It frequently has relationship dynamics that would be at least a little bit sketchy in a M/F relationship but are frequently hot to many women *in abstract*, much like your example of anal.

Tbh I imagine that fictional gay guys are into anal so much partly because the straight women reading them are almost as bad at imagining non-penetrative sex as the horny straight guys in the next room over. “Men don’t have a designated place for such activities but I hear that anal is a thing so they must just do that a lot.”

Sexuality is just one of many character traits. I would say good writing is not about what traits your characters have, but how you use them. If all you can say about your character is that they are gay, most people won't like that character, though in the right setting it can still work. If just one of your character's traits is that they are gay, and you are not preaching about it, I don't see a problem.

JordanIda said:

You know, I think I kind of stand corrected here.

I'm such a newb, and I think I'm looking at this all wrong. I'm all about realism. What's real and making it real. But that's probably not the right way to be thinking about it. You're spot-on, I think. No one cares about what's real. What matters most is what readers want. The job of the writer, if she expects readers, to give the readers what they want, and to hell with reality.

So if female readers (by and large) are titillated by gay anal, and one wants female readers,.... Hmmm.

Fantasy and reality do not require compatibility. And if the point of entertainment is escape, then the greater the departure, the better?

Lots to think about, I suppose.

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Yeah, but if you don't want to write that, what's motivating you?

Just don't make those gay characters clingy, vindictive or super cringy. Those kinds of characters totally turned Ai-chan off at least. You can make gay characters to be normal people. There's no need to fetishize them as if they're some weird clown. Gay people can be normal people you meet everyday on the streets. The kind of normal that you just glance at and then return to what you were doing before.

JordanIda said:

You know, I think I kind of stand corrected here.

I'm such a newb, and I think I'm looking at this all wrong. I'm all about realism. What's real and making it real. But that's probably not the right way to be thinking about it. You're spot-on, I think. No one cares about what's real. What matters most is what readers want. The job of the writer, if she expects readers, to give the readers what they want, and to hell with reality.

So if female readers (by and large) are titillated by gay anal, and one wants female readers,.... Hmmm.

Fantasy and reality do not require compatibility. And if the point of entertainment is escape, then the greater the departure, the better?

Lots to think about, I suppose.

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Just be sure not to overcorrect. I was being descriptive, not prescriptive. I was describing market forces and their effects, not ART. You write what you want to write, not what you perceive as what people are asking for you, or you’re no more than a clanker. And trust me, AI will get better at churning out slop faster than you will.

JordanIda said:

If gender identity shouldn't matter, and sexual preferences of any sort should be okay and shouldn't matter, then why make such a big deal of them? Why not just tell the story? If the story has a reason for making the character gay, as opposed to hetero or whatever, then fine.

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Orrrrr consider that gay characters can exist even without a specific reason, just like the heteros can?

JordanIda said:

Two men might be life partners. But I don't depict them in coitus.

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And consider that there's a lot more to partnerships than fucking?

tentacle_master said:

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If my straight MC doing xxx stuff with a femboy, does that make both of them gay?

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Yes

tentacle_master said:

If my straight MC doing xxx stuff with a femboy, does that make both of them gay?

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That makes them both very geh. Who the hell cares anyway?

Unlike what the commieforians may say, DON'T make being gay the character's personality. Unless they're Slaanesh neophytes hating and gooning all day, a guy is just a guy 95% of the time until they get randy. Then many say and do dumb stuff for that booty.

Great topic

If the character is gay, and that's it, they're still productive characters that are also gay, then cool. But when their preference for whom they sleep with is most of their personality and presentation, it's fucking annoying. We get it, you're gay, what else can you do that's actually fucking useful to the narrative?

Fisher0001 said:

Just wondering what, in your opinion, makes a gay character work in a piece of fiction, and what makes the writing not work as a work of art? Give me your thoughts and opinions.

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Gay characters "work" when they make sense in the story.
In most of my stories, since the 80s, there has been at last one gay or bi character - in general just because that reflected the real world as I experienced it.
They "fail" in a piece of fiction if being gay is their most important trait, the only thing that defines them, rather than being part of who they are.

The writing is always a work of art - it just isn't always a good one and can be seen as an annoyingly preachy one if it seems to glorify gay relationships and denigrate traditional ones or makes the character just a bit too flamboyant and stereotypical (I remember comments from the first run of the TV series "Will and Grace" from LGBTQ people who said "After two episodes, we're pretty sure the actor playing Will is not gay, and really wish he were, while we also suspect the one playing Jack is not gay and doesn't even know anyone who is, just tries to be over the top on every gay stereotype.").

A story I wrote in the mid 90s had one of my favorite character interactions. Two superheroes, one a Batman-like lesbian (before the modern take on Batwoman came out ... literally and figuratively ... by almost a year IIRC) who is also a doctor and a skater, and who met the other character, a British "ladies' man" with powers very similar to The Thing except he can turn them on and off, when he made his costume. He's never seen her out of costume and sees her skating a few days before Christmas.
He stops to admire her - she had qualified for the Olympics when her parents' deaths made her give up those dreams and go into medicine, but never stopped practicing to stay in shape - and hit on her when she's done.
"I'm sure your very charming, and not bad looking," Susan replied, "But... well, I'm a lesbian..."
"Oh!" Nate replied, flushing slightly. "I... I'm so sorry..."
"Don't be - I rather enjoy it. Well, this has been a nice chat, but I have to get to work. Good meeting you Nathan, and Merry Christmas."
"Oh, I rather doubt that," he replied, a slight twinkle in his eye.
"Oh? Why is that?" she paused packing up her things to ask.
"Because I'm Jewish!"
"Ah! Oh... I'm so sorry..."
"Don't be - I rather enjoy it. And a good day to you, ma'am."

Fisher0001 said:

Just wondering what, in your opinion, makes a gay character work in a piece of fiction, and what makes the writing not work as a work of art? Give me your thoughts and opinions.

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I write a series where almost everyone is sapphic, and for me, it boils down to two things: It works when the character's orientation is 'baked in' rather than 'added on.' For example if in my work a Queen, shows her love for women should affect how she leads, who she trusts, and how she sees power. It works when the intimacy feels like a natural part of the world’s 'vibe' rather than a side-quest. It doesn't work when a character is 'The Gay One' and has no other personality traits.