Neurodivergent character vs. 'Autism' tag?

AnEmberOfSundown

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Hi readers, I've been thinking myself in circles on this and figured I'd see what everyone else's thoughts on it might be.

For background, I recently submitted a request to add a 'neurodivergent character' tag and it got shot down. I'm not here to re-litigate that. This is not my site, it's not my call. I had originally submitted it on the thought that many genres of fiction don't support the diagnostic definitions of autism, ADHD, or other neurotypes and a more generalized tag might fit better.

So here's the question. Lacking a better option, if I did add the 'autism' tag would you as a reader feel mislead if you started reading a story with a protagonist like mine or do you believe I should have already added it?

The character, Eya, displays a constellation of symptoms and behaviors that (I believe) anyone familiar with neurodivergent thinking would recognize. Throughout both books she fairly consistently exhibits:
•Masking
•Sensory processing difficulty/Sensory seeking
•Hyperfixation
•Info-dumping
•Rejection sensitivity
•Literal interpretation/social difficulty

Seems obvious, right? Here's why I ask though:
•The symptoms are never explained in clinical language. In fact, at first she just seems unexplainably 'quirky'.
•There is no Very Special Chapter where she teaches others about her unique perspective. Mostly she muddles through it and in book 2 her companions begin to learn to accommodate her.
•Her patterns aren't treated like a superpower or a disability. Sometimes they help, a lot of times they get in the way.
•She's not written or presented as an "Autistic hero". She's just Eya. She's a little weird but she's got too much going on to get bogged down about it.
•Most importantly: The plot isn't really 'about' autism. This is the biggest reason why I've been reluctant to use that tag.

So, fire away. Thoughts?
 

MFontana

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If you happen to come to a good answer, then let me know as well.
For the time being I've simply used the 'autism' tag on my own stories that feature more or less a similar concept, but only because there isn't specifically one for characters yet.
 

AnEmberOfSundown

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I'm too conflicted about this. May I request a raincheck for tomorrow? I wanna sleep on this one.
Take all the time you need. I appreciate you giving it consideration.
If you happen to come to a good answer, then let me know as well.
For the time being I've simply used the 'autism' tag on my own stories that feature more or less a similar concept, but only because there isn't specifically one for characters yet.
I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking about this. I was half expecting the answers to be some version of "stop overthinking it".
 

Placeholder

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Autism is a subset of neurodiverse, and there are neurodiverse people who aren't autistic who are excluded if we only have the autism tag.

> Most importantly: The plot isn't really 'about' autism. This is the biggest reason why I've been reluctant to use that tag.

Stray Cat isn't really 'about' wlw, but it is still useful for people who want to read that and/or be represented, and, frankly, it is useful people who will bounce off of it.
There's other unrelated different tags that I block during searches because I won't know I won't click with it.
 

rileykifer

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Autistic person here. I wouldn't feel misled by the tag. A lot of us would like to see an autistic character just existing, instead of it being a big, special thing. Assuming you don't mention autism in the description, if anyone is disappointed that it's not an "autism" story, that's their problem for not reading the blurb first.

I think "neurodivergent character" would be a much better option though, and that it should be a tag. But since it's not, it's fine to use "autism."
 

AnEmberOfSundown

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Autism is a subset of neurodiverse, and there are neurodiverse people who aren't autistic who are excluded if we only have the autism tag.
This was my thinking exactly. Not going to lie, I was disappointed that the tag request was shot down with no explanation but, like I said, not my site.
 

CharlesEBrown

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Personally, I think the tag "Neurodivergent" should REPLACE the "Autism" tag(s) - but, general perception is the other way around, that Neurodivergence is a specific type of autism, and I think the tags as written reflect that perception, and it works well enough in most cases.

As for whether I would read it... on its own, the tag would have zero impact. If I saw a lot of praise for it, and needed something new to read, then probably. Otherwise, no real idea if I would or not.
 

Humanistheart

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Hi readers, I've been thinking myself in circles on this and figured I'd see what everyone else's thoughts on it might be.

For background, I recently submitted a request to add a 'neurodivergent character' tag and it got shot down. I'm not here to re-litigate that. This is not my site, it's not my call. I had originally submitted it on the thought that many genres of fiction don't support the diagnostic definitions of autism, ADHD, or other neurotypes and a more generalized tag might fit better.

So here's the question. Lacking a better option, if I did add the 'autism' tag would you as a reader feel mislead if you started reading a story with a protagonist like mine or do you believe I should have already added it?

The character, Eya, displays a constellation of symptoms and behaviors that (I believe) anyone familiar with neurodivergent thinking would recognize. Throughout both books she fairly consistently exhibits:
•Masking
•Sensory processing difficulty/Sensory seeking
•Hyperfixation
•Info-dumping
•Rejection sensitivity
•Literal interpretation/social difficulty

Seems obvious, right? Here's why I ask though:
•The symptoms are never explained in clinical language. In fact, at first she just seems unexplainably 'quirky'.
•There is no Very Special Chapter where she teaches others about her unique perspective. Mostly she muddles through it and in book 2 her companions begin to learn to accommodate her.
•Her patterns aren't treated like a superpower or a disability. Sometimes they help, a lot of times they get in the way.
•She's not written or presented as an "Autistic hero". She's just Eya. She's a little weird but she's got too much going on to get bogged down about it.
•Most importantly: The plot isn't really 'about' autism. This is the biggest reason why I've been reluctant to use that tag.

So, fire away. Thoughts?
No I think that tag would be fine.
Personally, I think the tag "Neurodivergent" should REPLACE the "Autism" tag(s) - but, general perception is the other way around, that Neurodivergence is a specific type of autism, and I think the tags as written reflect that perception, and it works well enough in most cases.
I’m sorry, you’re telling us there are people so ignorant they think neurodivergent is a type of autism?
 

CharlesEBrown

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No I think that tag would be fine.

I’m sorry, you’re telling us there are people so ignorant they think neurodivergent is a type of autism?
Not exactly - I'm saying that popular media has not made that distinction and often uses the terms interchangeably. Those who don't know (or aren't themselves) neurodivergent people, likely do not know better. I do because I have some friends with neurodivergent kids (also there is some suspicion that I may be an undiagnosed neurodivergent), and my wife is a psych nurse.
 

Humanistheart

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Not exactly - I'm saying that popular media has not made that distinction and often uses the terms interchangeably. Those who don't know (or aren't themselves) neurodivergent people, likely do not know better. I do because I have some friends with neurodivergent kids (also there is some suspicion that I may be an undiagnosed neurodivergent), and my wife is a psych nurse.
Oh boy, it’s crazy. I know it’s a newer term but still…

I suppose that’s in line with what I’ve seen, where ableist slurs are still fine even on platforms that heavily come down on other forms of hate speech like racism or sexism.
 

CharlesEBrown

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I mean, heck, Jim Parsons had never heard either term before accepting the role of Sheldon Cooper on Big Bang Theory and was surprised when fans praised his portrayal of a character written with a mix of Asperger's Syndrome and OCD.
 

FleecedSheep

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Eh, I think the tag existing is kind of strange. In the same way, I'd think a neurodivergent tag would be worse. I mean, back in the day they'd use Aspergers for higher functioning individuals, and Autism for lower functioning, if I'm remembering right, I might have gotten my wires crossed here. Now, I think the former term has fallen out of favor, and now everything is being labelled under Neurodivergent or whatever. Feels a bit unnecessary.

I digress, what I'm trying to get across is, the specific tag seems odd. It's not Autistic Character, or as you say, Neurodivergent Character, its simply Autism. Which is a much broader term. What exactly is it supposed to explain? Why does it even exist as itself? Isn't that odd? Shouldn't it have a modifier? And why only Autism? Why?

As to an answer to your question, I'd probably avoid the tag.
 

CharlesEBrown

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Eh, I think the tag existing is kind of strange. In the same way, I'd think a neurodivergent tag would be worse. I mean, back in the day they'd use Aspergers for higher functioning individuals, and Autism for lower functioning, if I'm remembering right, I might have gotten my wires crossed here. Now, I think the former term has fallen out of favor, and now everything is being labelled under Neurodivergent or whatever. Feels a bit unnecessary.
Nah - both are forms of neurodivergence, and still in wide use. Asperger's is kind of what used to be called "idiot savant" - a person who is really, really good at a limited number of things but nearly incompetent at everything else.
My mom once told my wife that she thought I had Asperger's and my wife replied: "No, he's not that smart."
 

FleecedSheep

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Nah - both are forms of neurodivergence, and still in wide use. Asperger's is kind of what used to be called "idiot savant" - a person who is really, really good at a limited number of things but nearly incompetent at everything else.
My mom once told my wife that she thought I had Asperger's and my wife replied: "No, he's not that smart."
Yeah, I figured they were both under the umbrella term of Neurodivergent. Wasn't aware both were still in use in the today, I knew Autism was, but I don't hear Asperger's as much as back then. I know in the early 2000's it caused a lot of contention since there was a big difference between the two in the public eye. Asperger's was considered fine, as you said, Idiot Savant, but Autism was often compared to Down's Syndrome back in the day. After all, there was the whole War on Autism campaign and all. A lot of people fought to have their children diagnosed with Asperger's over Autism for that same reason.

I just find it funny they made an umbrella term for everything. Seems like a big sidestep really.
 

CharlesEBrown

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Asperger's was considered fine, as you said, Idiot Savant, but Autism was often compared to Down's Syndrome back in the day.
For a few decades the two were often misdiagnosed as each other - autistic people were diagnosed as "retarded" or suffering from Down's Syndrome or something else. One of the few celebrity awareness campaigns that was worth the effort put into it was the one to raise public awareness for autism.
 

AnEmberOfSundown

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Yeah, I figured they were both under the umbrella term of Neurodivergent. Wasn't aware both were still in use in the today, I knew Autism was, but I don't hear Asperger's as much as back then. I know in the early 2000's it caused a lot of contention since there was a big difference between the two in the public eye. Asperger's was considered fine, as you said, Idiot Savant, but Autism was often compared to Down's Syndrome back in the day. After all, there was the whole War on Autism campaign and all. A lot of people fought to have their children diagnosed with Asperger's over Autism for that same reason.

I just find it funny they made an umbrella term for everything. Seems like a big sidestep really.
Asperger syndrome is not a valid diagnosis anymore, it was merged into ASD in the DSM-V in 2013. There's not even an ICD-11 code for it, so it can't be charted (and therefore billed, which is how you know its for real, LOL). Probably why you don't hear about it as much these days. It's mostly a holdover for the reasons you cited, namely that it was a more "acceptable" form of autism.

On an unrelated note, someone needs to start a GoFundMe for the "Shoot Jenny McCarthy out of a fucking cannon and into the sun" project.

EDIT: For legal purposes the "Shoot Jenny McCarthy out of a fucking cannon and into the sun" project is satirical and should not in any way be construed as serious. Basic math tells us that it takes far less delta-v to shoot someone out of the solar system than into the sun and I would not condone being wasteful.
 

MFontana

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Asperger syndrome is not a valid diagnosis anymore, it was merged into ASD in the DSM-V in 2013. There's not even an ICD-11 code for it, so it can't be charted (and therefore billed, which is how you know its for real, LOL). Probably why you don't hear about it as much these days. It's mostly a holdover for the reasons you cited, namely that it was a more "acceptable" form of autism.

On an unrelated note, someone needs to start a GoFundMe for the "Shoot Jenny McCarthy out of a fucking cannon and into the sun" project.

EDIT: For legal purposes the "Shoot Jenny McCarthy out of a fucking cannon and into the sun" project is satirical and should not in any way be construed as serious. Basic math tells us that it takes far less delta-v to shoot someone out of the solar system than into the sun and I would not condone being wasteful.
Wouldn't that be (theoretically) possible with a large enough counterweight trebuchet?
Either way, building one big enough to launch something with enough force to achieve escape velocity would be a noteworthy achievement of engineering by its own merits, and quite the feat of engineering.
We should do a GoFundMe for this instead. Imagine the practical applications of a projectile platform capable of launching rocks into space.
 

FleecedSheep

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For a few decades the two were often misdiagnosed as each other - autistic people were diagnosed as "retarded" or suffering from Down's Syndrome or something else. One of the few celebrity awareness campaigns that was worth the effort put into it was the one to raise public awareness for autism.
Yeah, which was a big reason for why a lot of people in the community referred to each other as being on the spectrum. Especially since there were methods and ways to identify and rectify areas they were weak in so they could function in normal society.
Asperger syndrome is not a valid diagnosis anymore, it was merged into ASD in the DSM-V in 2013. There's not even an ICD-11 code for it, so it can't be charted (and therefore billed, which is how you know its for real, LOL). Probably why you don't hear about it as much these days. It's mostly a holdover for the reasons you cited, namely that it was a more "acceptable" form of autism.

On an unrelated note, someone needs to start a GoFundMe for the "Shoot Jenny McCarthy out of a fucking cannon and into the sun" project.

EDIT: For legal purposes the "Shoot Jenny McCarthy out of a fucking cannon and into the sun" project is satirical and should not in any way be construed as serious. Basic math tells us that it takes far less delta-v to shoot someone out of the solar system than into the sun and I would not condone being wasteful.
Yeah, a lot of people back then hated how they separate the two. The differentiation between Asperger's and Autism was rather subjective and made it hard for everyone to come up with a system to diagnose and correct their weak areas. Glad to hear they officially removed Aspergers as a diagnosis as it wasn't helpful at all.
 
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