Advices Needed

[Hans.Trondheim]

So here's the situation.

I was asked to speak for a writing club that was recently founded in our school, and while I have experience in teaching writing and writing itself, I couldn't monetize my work simply because I don't write for the audience. Now, I'm humbly asking for your advices--especially those whose works are always in trending--what advice you can give to my students if you're given an opportunity to speak to them.

P.S.: I'll pick up your advice, and cite you in my speech. I plan to present them two types of writers: the one that writes for himself/herself (like me), which falls under 'recreational writing,' and the ones that can monetize their work.

Proof of the conversation:

Disclaimer: Language is in Flip.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Select a genre you like (not a niche one), and understand the readers of that genre. Do market research to see if that genre will sell well. Meet the market where they will buy it. Just like you wouldn't want to place a store where no one will buy the product, you don't want to put a novel where people don't read.

If a story is not working, you may have to change it several times. Or you may have to make a completely new story and abandon the old one altogether. Writing comes with countless failures, but if you don't quit, monetizing a novel is not impossible.

Meeting reader demands doesn't mean not being unique. Be unique without being unique at all. Give them a premise that is popular, but sell them on the uniqueness of your execution.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

Select a genre you like (not a niche one), and understand the readers of that genre. Do market research to see if that genre will sell well. Meet the market where they will buy it. Just like you wouldn't want to place a store where no one will buy the product, you don't want to put a novel where people don't read.

If a story is not working, you may have to change it several times. Or you may have to make a completely new story and abandon the old one altogether. Writing comes with countless failures, but if you don't quit, monetizing a novel is not impossible.

Meeting reader demands doesn't mean not being unique. Be unique without being unique at all. Give them a premise that is popular, but sell them on the uniqueness of your execution.

Is it fine if I take a screenshot of this for the speech? Thanks!

 

[AmbreaTaddy]

I've been an author for years and let me tell you, the difference between books that sell and books that don't is all about marketing.

Are unpopular novels worse than published ones ? Not at all. There are the same quantity (if not more) unpiblished works in popular genres, things that would actually interest readers, the only difference is that they don't market themselves.

When you are an author, the sad part is that your work is 20% writing and 80% marketing. If you find a publisher that does the promotion for you, then great ! If not, it's a daily grind. You must convince the public that your book is good, that it will interest them, and that they need to read it. It involves a lot of technical work, like finding the keywords of your story, then research who is interested by those keywords, and how to market it to them.

For exemple, 'fantasy romance' is popular in the booktok community, and marketing on tiktok works. However, 'fantasy action' works better in manhwa and rpg communities. You need to know your book perfectly, then study trends, communities, popular topics, marketing strategies, social media algorythm, etc...

It's hard, really

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

I've been an author for years and let me tell you, the difference between books that sell and books that don't is all about marketing.

Are unpopular novels worse than published ones ? Not at all. There are the same quantity (if not more) unpiblished works in popular genres, things that would actually interest readers, the only difference is that they don't market themselves.

When you are an author, the sad part is that your work is 20% writing and 80% marketing. If you find a publisher that does the promotion for you, then great ! If not, it's a daily grind. You must convince the public that your book is good, that it will interest them, and that they need to read it. It involves a lot of technical work, like finding the keywords of your story, then research who is interested by those keywords, and how to market it to them.

For exemple, 'fantasy romance' is popular in the booktok community, and marketing on tiktok works. However, 'fantasy action' works better in manhwa and rpg communities. You need to know your book perfectly, then study trends, communities, popular topics, marketing strategies, social media algorythm, etc...

It's hard, really

I'll take a screenshot of this if it's fine with you.

 

[AmbreaTaddy]

I'll take a screenshot of this if it's fine with you.

It's fine

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

It's fine

Merci Mademoiselle.

 

[AmbreaTaddy]

Merci Mademoiselle.

Haven't been called that for years, I feel young

 

[Tempokai]

Storytelling is communication of ideas. If you can't communicate what you mean, you can't tell a story properly. You can write about anything, but if that combination of ideas is incoherent and lacks clarity, no one will read you. That's basics of basics. You, as a storyteller, essentially talk to the readers using medium of a story, showing off what you know and want the reader to know.

Even if you're writing for yourself, you're essentially writing for future you, who will be little different than you now. Write your ideas like you mean it, proper intent is the way to go. You need to focus on basic ideas first, and then expand from that. Shoving every idea you have is unproductive, because intent in writing has limits.

Think of writing like a very long speech, but in words, that reader hears it in their mind. You either can be stand-up comedian, holding attention on yourself for a long time because you're charismatic and interesting. In other hands, no one listens to the principal's words that much because he's boring. Your job as a storyteller to be not boring. Know yourself, and you'll find your voice you want everyone to know. Otherwise, you'll be just ordinary Joe #52435.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I will try to condense my advice for people who strive to earn money and\or readers. In case of striving for big numbers, the most important part of writing is everything that isn't related to writing. Mindset is what makes or breaks you. You can adjust your style and quality as much as you need if you have the proper mindset.

Discipline. It's hard, I struggle with it myself, but you have to work on your discipline. If you want to earn money, you can't rely on motivation. You have to keep writing even when you feel under the weather. The only way to do it is discipline.

Confidence. Hubris is the death of many authors, at the same time, you must keep a certain level of confidence. I would include a certain phenomenon here. If you aren't confident, if you keep rewriting your work again and again, you won't achieve anything. You shouldn't just post whatever, you shouldn't rewrite constantly either. You have to find a balance, it usually comes with experience.

You should be flexible. You should as well be ready to do the non-creative work. I'm speaking mostly about research. If you open up a stall and sell hotdogs in the middle of a neighborhood where only vegetarians live, will you profit? So you have to be flexible, do work outside of your sphere of interest and at times sacrifice your wishes and desires. You have to look at what sells and try to adapt to it.

Lastly, perseverance. It's tied to confidence. It's ok to fail. It's ok if your first work isn't up to your standards. The problem of creative work is that it will never be up to your standards. You can't make a gem shine brighter past a certain point, doesn't matter how hard you polish it. Nor can you turn a common rock into a gemstone with polish. The important part is to not give up, and to learn from your mistakes.

You can either rely on luck like other people do it, or you can make yourself with your own hands.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

To quote someone wise on this matter, "Boobas are the meta of Scribble Hub".

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Is it fine if I take a screenshot of this for the speech? Thanks!

Yes, you can take a screenshot.

 

[beast_regards]

I am pretty certain you could ignore whatever they say.

I didn't receive any substantial education in creative writing, only the basics that were clamped to the lessons under the vague umbrella of "literature" the school deemed necessary for purely technical education.

It sucked, obviously, but it was exactly the same lessons as "humanistic branches" (whatever it was called) got. They just got "philosophy" when we had "programming" etc.

As a rule of thumb, school tend to ignore the modern, and especially popular, literature in general. I.e. whatever you would enjoy to read isn't taught in school, and is extremely judgmental about your tastes.

The most "modern" books ever taught in school are at least 30 years old, most likely older, and were not even intended as the entertainment back in the day. It was how rich intellectuals with political ambitions expressed themselves.

 

[Tyranomaster]

Being successful as an author and having fun writing are two different things. Others already mentioned that marketing and market research are a big part. It's just like almost any other "career" that could also be a hobby. What is the difference between a farmer and a gardener, or a chef and someone who cooks for themself? You have to look at the problem in a very different way.

A farmer isn't concerned if a single plant on the edge of a field does poorly, only if a reasonable percentage of the plants do bad. A hobby gardener does care about each individual plant. Cooking for yourself means you just have to match your own tastes, and if you want to, you can slack off for a meal. A chef has to be consistent and make something that isn't so unique that it scares away customers.

Being an author for money is like that. You have to look at the problem differently. You aren't writing for yourself anymore. You can't just drop it, or suddenly change directions. If you, as a customer, had a favorite restaurant, and suddenly the flavor of the food changed, or they changed their menu, it'd be upsetting. That doesn't mean it can't be unique, just that it has to be consistent and have an audience. What it means is selecting a story you want to write that other people want to read. *Most* authors have more stories than they have time to write. Picking which one to write that would have the broadest appeal, even if it's the 5th or 6th story in your personal list is the kind of choices you have to make. Sometimes you'll misjudge the available audience, and when that happens, you have to decide if you'll drop the story, or maintain it just to finish it for your own sake despite not making money, but you need to be conscious that is what you're doing.

When money is involved, its business. You need everything that a business has. Good pr, good marketing, curb appeal, consistency. Which means you likely have to do it all yourself. It's not fun, it's work. Work is what you do to make money. The writing part is the 20% or so of fun you get to do while you do your work to make money.

(Yes, you have my permission to screenshot/use this if you want to).

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

@Tyranomaster @beast_regards @Assurbanipal_II @RepresentingEnvy @RepresentingWrath @Tempokai @AmbreaTaddy

Thank you for the answers, guys! Really appreciate the effort to help me in this!

Have a great day!

 

[CharlesEBrown]

No advice is 100% guaranteed for everyone. Luck, timing and connections all play a role.

 

[melchi]

This is all second hand because I'm not making any money on writing so take it with a grain of salt.

Royal Road: To be successful there, I saw a blog that the top fictions are the one that cater to teenage boys. So, shonen type MCs, lots of action etc.

Amazon Unlimited: The trick here is to chain releases. Amazon unlimited offers some free marketing for a month (I've read.) So the trick there is to keep something being published every month in the series. So having a bunch of volumes lined up is a good stat. Have 3 books lined up, release book 1, then wait a month, release book 2, etc. Making a long book is a bad start there because book 3 will drive readers to check out book 1 and 2.

There is the traditional route but I bet a bunch of other people can speak to that better.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Oh one thing - don't be afraid to take chances. I just signed a contract with PocketFM, and only posted there on a whim.

 

[HisDivineShadow]

Oh one thing - don't be afraid to take chances. I just signed a contract with PocketFM, and only posted there on a whim.

Congrats ?

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

Thanks for the advices, @CharlesEBrown and @melchi !

Though I don't think they will get some Amazon kindle stuff for now. If anything, they'd go to Wattpad.