Determining the Optimal Level of Overpoweredness: Is It Possible?

[LunaSoltaer]

So from a literary perspective, any amount of OPness is fine, as long as it doesn't negate the central conflict.

This is why OPM works, by the way: the driving force of the plot is NOT Can Saitama Beat This because Of Course He Does. It's a more psychological journey of what does he do now that he's the most powerful thing on the world and knows it?

And yes, people tend to love power when it feels earned and we can enpathise with the character doing the work

 

[TheEldritchGod]

I've run d20 for decades. My players started at level 1 worked thier way up. They took their characters once and had a fight with some other people we knew, but they got to make their characters from scratch at the same level.

The beating those poor fools took was embarrassing.

The monk wiped the floor with them.

The. monk.

Actually developing the character over time gives you a much better idea what works and what doesn't. Oddly enough, jumping straight to op often leads to weakness because you don't know what you can do.

Practical skill comes with practice.
Power? Any fool can get power, but can you use it?

 

[Midnight-Phantom]

Before you make the MC's skillset, you should make soneone with the concept of "Stronger than the MC" in mind, that's your boundary and how far to take the OPness of the MC. Then put it here and do not change that character at all. It's also known as the "Superboss", the MC can fight them but they will most likely lose.

This is my way of creating a tangible limit the readers could understand.

One of the best example of this archetype is Urek Mazino from Tower of God, he wiped out a floor just by existing.

By using this method, I can hide how OP the MC is, showing they can still grow even if they are overpowered.

And to make the story more interesting...

Give them mental illnesses, or obsessions, like being a psychopath or a kleptomaniac. Kleptomaniac route is usually fun, how far would the MC go just for a collectable? Even better if the Superboss is involved somehow. Nobody is without metal illnesses.

All in all, just put your ideas into words, things will work out in a way.

So theoretically I can create any character so for the matter a super boss not aligned with me in any way like not his friend or foe as a being like that would not care for an overly talented guy that can after a long time become as powerful as him ?? hmmm.. can I be the guy and be like a teacher of mc? teaching him stuff about how to be a good guy and don't destroy creation on accident >?

 

[melchi]

There are generally 2 faults that cause me to drop an OP fantasy.

1.) Generalist

2.) Demi-god level of power

For the first, being a generalist means they can spit out anything when they need it. This is also known as Dues ex Machina. No one likes this. Having clearly defined things that someone can do and can't do is important. For example, OP protag burns everything, then villains attack with fire elementals. OP protag laughs and starts casting ice and water attacks. If fire is their main thing, make opposed elements their weakness it creates a better narrative.

For the second, when someone leaves their humanity behind to stand among legends, that moment when their place in history will never get surpassed.... something else goes with it: Relatability. When a protag leaves their humanity behind they also leave the readers of the book behind.

 

[Rhaps]

Skillset wise, just make them however you like.

I do agree that having the MC gradually becoming stronger is a better method that just going all out from the start.

But as someone who tackle OP MC, you don't need to focus on the wins but how they won. My MC always left mental scars for example, just due to how much of a psycho she is.

I also made it very clear from the beginning my MC is much stronger than anyone else and can beat the shit out of them easily. That shifted my focus on developing her personality more than her powers because they were already established.

Personality>Power anyday. That's what the readers are after.

Take my advices with a grain of salt. I'm the one who put saving the universe as a subplot lol.

 

[Midnight-Phantom]

I'll be honest with you. Writing a 'powerless' character and aiming for a logical reaction to his predicament is risky. I did it to my main project, the Saint Series, in its early volumes, and readers mistook my MC as a beta wimp. As in, from Volume 1-4, my MC is magicless, and it was only after Volume 4 that he gets to fight (and kill) with ordinary weapons.

Readers commenting "He's a doormat", "BETA" and other whatnot. What's worse is the low ratings.

17 volumes later, he's OP, though his OPness still has limits. As an author, I don't want him to solve problems by bulldozing his enemies; I want him to use his mind and his connections to come at a satisfactory conclusion.

That's another bind for sure dude how do you even manage a powerless guy in a fantasy beyond me, bro ..

 

[RepresentingWrath]

so should I make him as mundane as me? no no no no .. no one would read my biography..

or something like an everyday guy .. no-op ness, no violence, no action, just farming life stuff? or power can be obtained but he has all low talent for everything and does hard work and then at least become someone then a guy came and take all from him then he just aspect that kind of thing?

Why no action? Why no talent? Simply not OP. A person who has to actually train and use wits to win. Let's take MMA as an example. First fight of Stipe Miocic vs Francis Ngannou. Ngannou was better in almost everything in terms of physicality. Stipe had a better plan. Stipe won even though one good punch from Francis would've knocked him out.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

That's another bind for sure dude how do you even manage a powerless guy in a fantasy beyond me, bro ..

Well, I'm the author, and I set the rules of my worlds.

For my first arc, the culture resembled a 'Medieval European' setting, though a Late Medieval one. Chivalry is alive and well, and though with magic, my MC--who is a teacher from his old world--survived by playing by the rules of the more powerful people around him (hence, readers said he is spineless, and a doormat).

I mean, isn't it what we--if ever such a thing happened to us--would do as well? Contrary to expectations, we'd kowtow to the powerful to avoid pissing them off. If you're scheming, then you'd play by the rules, then someday snatch power from those who left their guards down.

 

[Tempokai]

If you make the protagonist OP from the start, don't show the limitations of the MC. Once you do, you're like a magician that revealed his secrets.

 

[Rhaps]

So theoretically I can create any character so for the matter a super boss not aligned with me in any way like not his friend or foe as a being like that would not care for an overly talented guy that can after a long time become as powerful as him ?? hmmm.. can I be the guy and be like a teacher of mc? teaching him stuff about how to be a good guy and don't destroy creation on accident >?

Yup, that character can be anyone you want. Or like what FGO did, an alien that made itself plot armor proof and can destroy Earth just by having a jog, ORT, just chilling after crash landed in South America.

 

[Midnight-Phantom]

Try to consider why was he contracted by a god? Does he have any qualities he 'earned' that warrants a god's favor? An innate quality (something from birth) can still be seen as a cheat. Try to think of something your MC 'learned' through his efforts, that ended up warranting a god's support.

must create a draft for that tho .. good reasoning tho .. a reason, but to what length? like professor paradox on Ben 10? science experiment failure thrown into the space-time continuum, somehow survives then become mad and with conversion becomes the origin of time ?? or mundane like a warrior reborn with memories can with mana can become powerful, ?

 

[AnonUnlimited]

Like evolvable ability>? wait why am I drooling ..

let’s say his ability is to meld metal together, or perhaps restructure atoms in molecules.

He can become OP as he learns how to restructure stronger molecules or perhaps make weapons. Etc.

The ability doesn’t evolve, his mind and ability to use more knowledge evolves.

 

[Midnight-Phantom]

KARMA means you reap what you sow

Logically, there's no need to hesitate regarding GIANT ADVANTAGES (OP) as long as you can make yourself worthy of it.

Like in Atlas Shrugged it was mentioned 'a man must be worthy of his money or else it'll destroy him' (since money is the essence o successful creative effort {"money": the most-tradeable value})


SHOULD YOU make an OP character THIS strong or THAT strong?

Just do what what seems most interesting.

Deep !!

still, my question stands dude .. how should I approach it tho > ? What makes him worthy? do I do that in a mortal sense or in the sense that he survives in the sea of nihility somehow .. that makes him worthy .. I can't imagine a reason he can survive the nihility .. Binder is in that...

 

[Deleted member 76176]

so should I make him as mundane as me? no no no no .. no one would read my biography..

or something like an everyday guy .. no-op ness, no violence, no action, just farming life stuff?

Congratulations! You have successfully offended the Slice of Life fans

 

[Deleted member 54065]

must create a draft for that tho .. good reasoning tho .. a reason, but to what length? like professor paradox on Ben 10? science experiment failure thrown into the space-time continuum, somehow survives then become mad and with conversion becomes the origin of time ?? or mundane like a warrior reborn with memories can with mana can become powerful, ?

As long as it's logical, then it's enough.

For example, a lot of JPN authors--when they are confronted by the question "what makes your MC lovable?", they would give half-assed reasons like...

"This guy told me I'm cute," -Girl A

Seriously, in real life, no one will fall for you if you tell someone they are cute. Moreover, they'd think you're a creep.

How do we make it logical? What makes your character worthy of his powers?

Example: MC A is worthy of the god powers of the deity who supported him because when he was a child he--alone--maintained and supported the nearly forgotten shrine of the said god. Even risking the ridicule of others who follow a 'stronger' deity, that in the end, the rest of the heavens admired his dedication and decided to give him a taste of their power.

I think, with that action, even mere humans would give him their support if MC A decides to give them similar treatment.

 

[Midnight-Phantom]

So from a literary perspective, any amount of OPness is fine, as long as it doesn't negate the central conflict.

This is why OPM works, by the way: the driving force of the plot is NOT Can Saitama Beat This because Of Course He Does. It's a more psychological journey of what does he do now that he's the most powerful thing on the world and knows it?

And yes, people tend to love power when it feels earned and we can enpathise with the character doing the work

So a humble guy that can kick cookies .. but earned his op ness in a way that audience will understand either by funny sense or by pure logic .. noted !!

I've run d20 for decades. My players started at level 1 worked thier way up. They took their characters once and had a fight with some other people we knew, but they got to make their characters from scratch at the same level.

The beating those poor fools took was embarrassing.

The monk wiped the floor with them.

The. monk.

Actually developing the character over time gives you a much better idea what works and what doesn't. Oddly enough, jumping straight to op often leads to weakness because you don't know what you can do.

Practical skill comes with practice.
Power? Any fool can get power, but can you use it?

So even if I make mc op I should be careful about the usage of the said power .. or I should make various scenarios where he gets his op - ness and then also be careful with his powers thing >? That will also depend on the culture of the said place too right ? .. complicated !!

There are generally 2 faults that cause me to drop an OP fantasy.

1.) Generalist

2.) Demi-god level of power

For the first, being a generalist means they can spit out anything when they need it. This is also known as Dues ex Machina. No one likes this. Having clearly defined things that someone can do and can't do is important. For example, OP protag burns everything, then villains attack with fire elementals. OP protag laughs and starts casting ice and water attacks. If fire is their main thing, make opposed elements their weakness it creates a better narrative.

For the second, when someone leaves their humanity behind to stand among legends, that moment when their place in history will never get surpassed.... something else goes with it: Relatability. When a protag leaves their humanity behind they also leave the readers of the book

Agreed !! but I was thinking about his resourceful ness tho not his own power .. like he will stay mortal for a long time and have to work his way through levels but he will have a diverse skill range tho .. so he will not be killing dragons anytime soon but he can very well hide from one if need arise ..

Congratulations! You have successfully offended the Slice of Life fans

Nowadays slice of life comes with op ness too ...

Skillset wise, just make them however you like.

I do agree that having the MC gradually becoming stronger is a better method that just going all out from the start.

But as someone who tackle OP MC, you don't need to focus on the wins but how they won. My MC always left mental scars for example, just due to how much of a psycho she is.

I also made it very clear from the beginning my MC is much stronger than anyone else and can beat the shit out of them easily. That shifted my focus on developing her personality more than her powers because they were already established.

Personality>Power anyday. That's what the readers are after.

Take my advices with a grain of salt. I'm the one who put saving the universe as a subplot

hmm .. so not just creating a big fireball in response to a fireball but creating a fireball that is small but compact with scientific theories to make them kinna like a new spell thing >?? and with descriptions like how an ordinary fireball is 1cm but totally white in colour as you describe how what type of fuel you use to image thingy ??

Why no action? Why no talent? Simply not OP. A person who has to actually train and use wits to win. Let's take MMA as an example. First fight of Stipe Miocic vs Francis Ngannou. Ngannou was better in almost everything in terms of physicality. Stipe had a better plan. Stipe won even though one good punch from Francis would've knocked him out.

Talent comes in the op category too no? how does a photographic memory sound in a scenario when you can vividly remember spell formation things? or alcamy > ?? that's op .. or a special body that can do special stuff ..

 

[Succubiome]

I mean, I wouldn't advise using every angle mentioned here-- there's a bunch of different ways to make an OP MC interesting, and you don't need to use them all, and some of them actively conflict with each other to some extent.

What's your story about, other than the MC being OP?

 

[Midnight-Phantom]

Well, I'm the author, and I set the rules of my worlds.

For my first arc, the culture resembled a 'Medieval European' setting, though a Late Medieval one. Chivalry is alive and well, and though with magic, my MC--who is a teacher from his old world--survived by playing by the rules of the more powerful people around him (hence, readers said he is spineless, and a doormat).

I mean, isn't it what we--if ever such a thing happened to us--would do as well? Contrary to expectations, we'd kowtow to the powerful to avoid pissing them off. If you're scheming, then you'd play by the rules, then someday snatch power from those who left their guards down.

gotta read to fully understand bro but you are right .. most people if having no alternative means would do same ..

 

[Deleted member 54065]

gotta read to fully understand bro but you are right .. most people if having no alternative means would do same ..

Nah, I'm just citing my work as an example because I purposefully wrote that to subvert the OP MC isekai trope. That one can write a decent isekai novel without the slavery, the OP cheat MC, the adventurer's guild, dungeons, and game-like level system.

In any case, like what @Succubiome said, just pick what advice seems good/applicable to you. Don't use everything you read here.

 

[Midnight-Phantom]

If you make the protagonist OP from the start, don't show the limitations of the MC. Once you do, you're like a magician that revealed his secrets.

but that would make seem like he is the most powerful being in creation ..