Decline in moral standards in web novels

[AliceShiki]

Reported! @AliceShiki

*pat pat* They grow up so fast~ *sheds tear*

I'm proud of you~

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

WTF. How can you compare rape to traditional Christian marriages? I highly doubt you are even Christian! That is some fucked up satanic hate you are spewing.

1 Corinthians 7:4 has specifically been used to justify marital rape by fundamentalist Christians since decades ago via selective interpretations, just like slavery was justified with selective interpretations, Lolyd, if you're at all religious yourself, you should know of our less-than-stellar history of doctrine exploitation and corruption, which the Bible itself warns against.

The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

People would leave out the second part and say, "the Bible says my wife should give me some even when she says no." this is a known problem that more liberal Christian pundits have been fighting against for ages, and unfortunately has hidden behind obstruficating terms like "traditional Christian marriage" similar strands can be seen in other religions as well, the negative effects of which can still be felt today.

 

[Lloyd]

1 Corinthians 7:4 has specifically been used to justify marital rape by fundamentalist Christians since decades ago via selective interpretations, just like slavery was justified with selective interpretations, Lolyd, if you're at all religious yourself, you should know of our less-than-stellar history of doctrine exploitation and corruption, which the Bible itself warns against.



People would leave out the second part and say, "the Bible says my wife should give me some even when she says no." this is a known problem that more liberal Christian pundits have been fighting against for ages, and unfortunately has hidden behind obstruficating terms like "traditional Christian marriage" similar strands can be seen in other religions as well, the negative effects of which can still be felt today.

I preferer to use the interpretation of Saints, not random heretics

 

[NotaNuffian]

Six pages and no mod ban, huh?

1 Corinthians 7:4 has specifically been used to justify marital rape by fundamentalist Christians since decades ago via selective interpretations, just like slavery was justified with selective interpretations, Lolyd, if you're at all religious yourself, you should know of our less-than-stellar history of doctrine exploitation and corruption, which the Bible itself warns against.



People would leave out the second part and say, "the Bible says my wife should give me some even when she says no." this is a known problem that more liberal Christian pundits have been fighting against for ages, and unfortunately has hidden behind obstruficating terms like "traditional Christian marriage" similar strands can be seen in other religions as well, the negative effects of which can still be felt today.

Sadly you can have the Book of Exalted Deeds as the guiding light for all of humanity and there will still be a bunch of fuckers taking the phrases out of context and use it for their benefits.

Because in the end, the Bible is a tool and it is up to the readers and preachers to decipher it. Same as the laws and rules and same as everything else in the world. There will always be people trying to game the system.

 

[Lloyd]

Six pages and no mod ban, huh?


Sadly you can have the Book of Exalted Deeds as the guiding light for all of humanity and there will still be a bunch of fuckers taking the phrases out of context and use it for their benefits.

Because in the end, the Bible is a tool and it is up to the readers and preachers to decipher it. Same as the laws and rules and same as everything else in the world. There will always be people trying to game the system.

This is really only true when you look at protestants. Because they don't have the hierarchy and tradition of the Orthodox or Catholic Church, they can basically make up whatever they want.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

Sigh.

Religious arguments. Can't we just go back to the normal, and FAR more interesting arguments over feminism, gender, and idk...something else? Like..... @NotaNuffian isn't a real boy. Pinnochio-looking ass wooden puppet!! How dare you claim to be a real!!! Gepetto TOLD you to stop lying!! Don't make me feed you to a woodchipper

 

[Lloyd]

Sigh.

Religious arguments. Can't we just go back to the normal, and FAR more interesting arguments over feminism, gender, and idk...something else? Like..... @NotaNuffian isn't a real boy. Pinnochio-looking ass wooden puppet!! How dare you claim to be a real!!! Gepetto TOLD you to stop lying!! Don't make me feed you to a woodchipper

True! Many are afraid to say it, but not us!

 

[NotaNuffian]

Sigh.

Religious arguments. Can't we just go back to the normal, and FAR more interesting arguments over feminism, gender, and idk...something else? Like..... @NotaNuffian isn't a real boy. Pinnochio-looking ass wooden puppet!! How dare you claim to be a real!!! Gepetto TOLD you to stop lying!! Don't make me feed you to a woodchipper

But I am real, just that I'm not a real boy but a dusty 30 yo *saying out in a high pitch, kicked in testicles voice*

But seriously, where is the ban hammer?

 

[BlackKnightX]

I began my reading web novels in my early teens.(14 years old) Now I am 23.
From Chinese cultivation novels to Japanese lightnovels and even korean novels(translated). I have read more books than I could ever count.
Most of it was awesome, opening my mind to possibilities and thoughts that I could never come up on my own.
While at the same time, this is getting tiring. In the early days of translated web novels. They had quality in writing, character development and world development.
But now, it feels like morals are a thing of past.
The worst of all is the fact that low moral standard based novels are promoted extensively while real novels with substance are ignored. This might be my personal opinion. But I would like to hear hear more about this from webnovel authors and readers. Please comment.

Look, I respect people who have their own code and protocol—their own principles—but not morality. For me, morality is just an idea that human created through religious beliefs and has been taught from generation to generation. It’s a way to justify right and wrong.

But you see, that’s the problem. The world doesn’t just have right and wrong. It’s not just black and white. I’m a rational human being and I wholeheartedly believe in the grey area.

I don’t believe in right and wrong; only human’s perspective. Everyone has their own perspective, and believe it or not, all of them are slightly different from one another to some extent.

But then there’s this so-called morality or teaching or popular belief that try to impose their own perspective on you. Morality—what’s right and what’s wrong—is not set in stone. It’s not an absolute things. It’s just one of the many perspectives.

For something that’s considered right for some people, others might consider wrong. It’s just the matter of different perspectives.

From my experience—personal experience—people with high sense of morality are, more often than not, judgmental and emotional.

Killing is wrong? Yeah, damn right it’s wrong. Why? Cuz it’s wrong, okay!?

But… is killing really, I mean really, wrong? What about soldiers who fight in the war? Soldiers who have killed many just to protect citizens’ asses? Are they wrong?

What about the girl who’s about to get raped by someone, puts up a fight, and then accidentally murders that rapist? Is she wrong?

See what I mean? At the end of the day, different people will have different opinions about these questions. Some will think it’s wrong no matter what, some will sympathize with these people, some will think that it’s wrong but still being understanding about it.

Well, I’m glad to declare that I’m a rational human being. Call me a bastard or whatever, but I don’t play by that kind of standard, by what others try to impose upon me.

I do have my own code and protocol, my own beliefs, but that’s what I’ve learned throughout the years, as to adapt to the society and reap the most benefits out of it.

I believe in cause and effect, in reason. Everything has a reason to it, and whether one can accept it or not, that’s up to you.

For me, morality is not important. It’s just a limit that hinders endless possibilities in human’s life. It’s just a mere tool that human’s created to make people coexist in the society. It’s just the way to stop people from surviving upon each other—killing, robbing, and stuffs like that, that I’m sure as hell happened back in the stone ages.

As improbable as it may sound, what if one day there’s a zombie outbreak happening in the real world? Will you still abide by your sense of morality even if your own survivability is at risk?

I don’t wanna kill this guy even though he’s pointing a knife at my neck! I don’t wanna go back on my moral! It’s sinful! Oh, no!

Then, bam! You’re dead…

That’s just a silly example, but what if it really happens?

Humans are grey creatures. We’re emotional by nature—I admit, even though I claim to be a rational human being, deep down I still play by my own emotion, but that’s to be expected of a human. We act on our emotion and then justify it by logic. The funny thing is some people don’t even realize that.

So like I said: I don’t play by everyone else’s standard. I don’t believe in the general sense of morality. I believe in people’s perspectives and purposes.

The only thing that will guide me forward in this world is my purpose. When you have your purpose, you stop caring about others’ sense of morality. The only thing you care about is to achieve that purpose. By what means, that’s up to you. Some will choose a rocky path that will get them in trouble, some will choose a more subtle and peaceful path that’s guaranteed a smooth sailing, but is considerably slower than the former one.

But, that’s about it. Your own choices to make. Don’t let the so-called morality stop you from achieving your goal, no matter what that goal is.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

But, that’s about it. Your own choices to make. Don’t let the so-called morality stop you from achieving your goal, no matter what that goal is.

I wish I had the power to carry out that bit of advice. Sigh

 

[NotaNuffian]

But, that’s about it. Your own choices to make. Don’t let the so-called morality stop you from achieving your goal, no matter what that goal is.

Fucking hell, if I ever join a terrorist group, I will coin this phrase and the owner when I am getting choked by a knee or being waterboarded.

Yes, I know this phrase is true, which is why we have moral values, because I am sure as shit that humans, other than being lazy and apathetic, are all terrifying cunts.

I mean, just look at the news.

I wish I had the power to carry out that bit of advice. Sigh

Also, power isn't the issue. Discipline to get to that goal is. Planning alternate routes to that goal is. Having the hunger for that goal is.

Now if I can just stop BSing and use these phrases to improve on my life, that will be great.

 

[owotrucked]

I don't read stories with cruel protagonists, generally, so I may be out of my depth, but there's a reason why The Count of Monte Cristo and other revenge tales are popular. As well as some anti-heroesnl and villainous characters who are relatable.

The MC of Monte Cristo is litterally the avatar of morality pitted against flawed legal system, and buffed with unlimited knowledge and infinite money.

The author describes a lot about MC's inner conscience with vengeance, justifying everything. Even after injustice, MC is extremely generous towards the good people and ruthless against the unrepenting wrong doers.

His vengeance is targeted and makes sure to minimize collateral damage, trying to spare the innocent family of his enemies.

At some point his desire of vengeance wanes, thinking about leaving the painful past behind but after realizing that his father died of starvation when he was imprisoned, he had to pay back.

For redo of healer, the MC did get raped first... so returning the favor is a way to quench the personal thirst for justice.

So I think anti heroes can be attuned to moral questions, regardless of how they answer it.

The readers are instinctively drawn to the positive and repelled by the negative. So the author need to justify a good side in MC to raise emotions from it.

In yakuza/mafia story, you need to show the mc slightly better than the rest of the cast if you want readers to get attached.

As OP said, the subject (rape, murder) doesn't matter. If the author fails to present the MC as the Center of Good, it normally sucks because reader stops caring.

Now, as other people suggested, some readers want wishfulfillment and powertrip from an unfettered MC who can rape and murder whoever he wants in impunity I guess? These can certainly fulfill the deepest, animalistic impulses of the mind such as the desire to dominate and satisfy a woman through the sheer expression of masculinity. I guess it's better for people to satisfy those impulses through fiction than reality. But going further as author would be to satisfy those needs in a wholesome way.

(I tried to do that in my fiction: I tried baiting people in route B involving betraying a benefactor where it ends up with rape, but the wholesome and better part was in route A if MC reject the easy way for moral responsibility)

 

[MorgueAnna]

The MC of Monte Cristo is litterally the avatar of morality pitted against flawed legal system, and buffed with unlimited knowledge and infinite money.

The author describes a lot about MC's inner conscience with vengeance, justifying everything. Even after injustice, MC is extremely generous towards the good people and ruthless against the unrepenting wrong doers.

His vengeance is targeted and makes sure to minimize collateral damage, trying to spare the innocent family of his enemies.

At some point his desire of vengeance wanes, thinking about leaving the painful past behind but after realizing that his father died of starvation when he was imprisoned, he had to pay back.

Yes, it's one of my favorite novels, so I recognize this. I'm not sure that OP can recognize the nuance of characters like Edmond Dantes, what with the whole vaguely defined "degenerate" talk.

I suppose I should have worded it better; I don't enjoy pointlessly cruel protagonists.
If they are being awful because the author is an edgy child having a power fantasy...then that kid needs to get off the internet for a bit, take a nap, and go interact in meatspace to gain some perspective and nuance.

 

[greyblob]

But, that’s about it. Your own choices to make. Don’t let the so-called morality stop you from achieving your goal, no matter what that goal is.

absolutely and utterly based. I couldn't agree more my fellow sociopath. I will lie, manipulate, backstab, and ruin lives to achieve my goals.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Came here just to check if the discussions reached page 6.

Was not disappointed.

 

[ForestDweller]

Monte Cristo is so good. It's ironic though how the plot wouldn't be out of place in a contemporary Japanese LN. It even has a slave waifu!

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

Monte Cristo is so good. It's ironic though how the plot wouldn't be out of place in a contemporary Japanese LN. It even has a slave waifu!

Execution is the issue, and not many LNs have that down.

 

[BlackKnightX]

I wish I had the power to carry out that bit of advice. Sigh

Just do what you wanna do, man. Simple as that.

absolutely and utterly based. I couldn't agree more my fellow sociopath. I will lie, manipulate, backstab, and ruin lives to achieve my goals.

Oh, yes. Bring the world to darkness, my dear~

 

[NobleTalon]

The worst of all is the fact that low moral standard based novels are promoted extensively while real novels with substance are ignored

I'm not sure about that, there are more novels about cliche stories with righteous heroes saving the world than novels with low moral values.

I don't think the problem is the low morale, but just the difference with 'real' morale.

When a hero kills a man without remorse, but can't help to doubt about killing a woman and he ends up recruiting her in his harem, it can be considered 'good morale' but it's trash.

I prefer a MC killing everyone without differencing between age or sex. And this is just an example among so many others.

Imo, out of 10 new web novels getting released only 1 will be worth reading, the 9 others will just exploit the 'meta' to surf on what's popular and get more readers. Especially for Chinese and Japanese novels.

I ended up reading only Korean and Western webnovels recently, the quality is often better, you can find good novels and authors that don't follow the same clichés just to get a big reader-base while writing trash stuff.

 

[Deleted member 22388]

Moral values often are replaced over time.
The people nowadays are downgrading in my eyes based on my religion. [Showing your body(naked) shamelessly to the public, reduces your value to none even if you're beautiful]
Hence I am able to identify what is wrong and what is right. [Don't drink alchohol because they damage the body]
Without it, the humanity is all but lost and become gray without a guide from the real creator. [Depress on what is the real purpose in life]
Basing upon their whims and desire and later destruction. [If all are turning gays, would result in confusion of who the father and who the mother is and later extinction of humanity]
Don't fight me on this one. I won't argue.

Nowadays the core novels they shove onto you is about what the public's interest are. The content of each generation which they gave will tell you how the society is behaving. Indeed this paragraph is vague.

Finding a book about (wisdom) is worthy of hidden meanings because they are the treasure to the kind hearts. Hence I will wrestle a selfish man of my age not to disrespect an old man. Even if the old man is a shouter, show them kindness and light warning to let them feel peace. For the kid however just pinch their cheeks lightly HAHAHAHA.

My understanding may change but I will hold tight upon my religion for the upcoming end of times :D. Have a good day/night.