the Concept of Adventurers Guild

[Kilolo]

I'm sure we all know what an adventurers guild is. the place where you register and doing a quest designated by the guild. be it a subjugation request or collecting materials.

but what I wanted to discuss here, is how to make an adventurers guild that systematically make sense.

you do know that lots of WN depict adventurers guild with rank system from F to S rank, and they could register as long as they paid with a few days living expenses.
and then your adventurers guild card are issued at the very same day with no problem. then you can start taking jobs as long as it accordance to your ranks.

but the way i see it, those system are not making sense at all.

you can register as adventurer in less than a day just like that? without a strict filtering like that, lots of shady person would register to the guild for surreptitious reasoning.
and giving rank to an adventurer doesn't make sense as well, the higher the reward of the quest, then that means the more urgent it is. there's no reason to restrict your employee to doing a job that would benefit you, as long as they could do the job. that's it. and it's not like being in a higher rank would increasing any monthly salary anyway. because they're practically a freelancer to begin with.

so how do you think is a logical system of an adventurers guild? starting from the top of the organization who fund the whole thing, how they decide the management, how to determine the quest, where's the rewards coming from, logistic stuff, etc.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Honestly, I can't see the difference between a (old/modern) mercenary group and an adventurers' guild.

1) Same funding source (loot, or pay from the one who bought their services).
2) Same source of goals (from individuals or groups who can pay).
3) Same quality of members (with cutthroats and/or nice members).
4) Same love for money and/or adventure.

Hmm...I think the only difference is the level system like that JP-style F to S or SSS levels. Modern mercenary groups like Academi and Wagner group don't have something like that.

 

[Kilolo]

Honestly, I can't see the difference between a (old/modern) mercenary group and an adventurers' guild.

i think the big difference is : i don't think anyone would pay a mercenaries group to slay a dragon who's minding their own business in a desolate mountain.

but adventurers guild certainly would. for whatever reason.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

i think the big difference is : i don't think anyone would pay a mercenaries group to slay a dragon who's minding their own business in a desolate mountain.

but adventurers guild certainly would. for whatever reason.

True.

Well, in any case, I think most fantasy authors who use that trope tend to do it because such arrangement is easy, given that it was based on RPGames we often play. There's nothing to say where the funds come from, just click accept and no one bats an eye. If an author decides to go into details, he might as well write about the economic system of that place and the politics of mercenaries and similar armed groups...

...which is possible but many authors are lazy to think about the specifics. They wanted to jump into action immediately.

Another is that, 'mercenaries' have a negative connotation compared to 'adventurer', though technically, they have similar functions. Just like how a 'soldier' is a state-sponsored 'mercenary' of an specific country.

 

[Ai-chan]

I'm sure we all know what an adventurers guild is. the place where you register and doing a quest designated by the guild. be it a subjugation request or collecting materials.

but what I wanted to discuss here, is how to make an adventurers guild that systematically make sense.

you do know that lots of WN depict adventurers guild with rank system from F to S rank, and they could register as long as they paid with a few days living expenses.
and then your adventurers guild card are issued at the very same day with no problem. then you can start taking jobs as long as it accordance to your ranks.

but the way i see it, those system are not making sense at all.

you can register as adventurer in less than a day just like that? without a strict filtering like that, lots of shady person would register to the guild for surreptitious reasoning.
and giving rank to an adventurer doesn't make sense as well, the higher the reward of the quest, then that means the more urgent it is. there's no reason to restrict your employee to doing a job that would benefit you, as long as they could do the job. that's it. and it's not like being in a higher rank would increasing any monthly salary anyway. because they're practically a freelancer to begin with.

so how do you think is a logical system of an adventurers guild? starting from the top of the organization who fund the whole thing, how they decide the management, how to determine the quest, where's the rewards coming from, logistic stuff, etc.

In the story Ai-chan is writing, the one with the tavern called The Coal Fish, there is no adventurers guild in this world.

What she's making is not an adventurer's guild that has all those ranks. What's she's making is just a job center that affords people her beer. So she basically specifies stuff that she needs, those who need the money (usually enough to cover a day's worth of food and board) would get those stuff and sell them to her for the specified price. They would then use that same money to buy her often overpriced but delicious food and beer, considering that she is the only tavern with chilled ale and large amounts of sugar.

They can also pawn stuff such as monster materials or found equipments to her but the pricing is entirely dependent on her. If she can't think of any use for those materials, she'd just buy them at minimal price and it's up to them if they want to accept the price or sell them elsewhere. Over time, other taverns started doing it too, but because they do not have her 'special skills', they often misquote their pricing.

No, the protagonist does not have something as lazy as 'appraisal'.

p/s: If anyone wants to be alpha reader, tell Ai-chan. Ai-chan will add you, but you have to point out errors and plot holes.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

As for a logical arrangement of an 'Adventurer's Guild'...

Top Management should coordinate with the state and its leader, since they would surely need a permit in order for them to work inside a certain country's territory. For example, how are their members governed in relation to the laws of the state? Do they possess extraterritoriality? Are they allowed to cross borders without interference from the soldiers of the other neighboring state? Who would be held responsible if the guild members decide to go against the laws of the state?

Mid-level Management should be in-charge of accepting and handing-out quests. I guess to be logical, one has to classify quests according to reward, or the giver of the quest, not through difficulty (because it's certainly based on someone's perception). For example, if the king is the quest giver, his quest should be classified around 'Priority' levels...even if it's just picking herbs in the palace garden, along with his servants.

Oh, and speaking of quest levels, as I said earlier, we can't distinguish the difficulty of a said quest (unless one would hire a group of guild members who would determine it...and it's kind of misleading too), an Adventurer's Guild quest should be classified as (high to low) 'Priority' > 'Normal' > 'Optional', with the start at 'Optional'. Payment can be made by the quest giver to have his/her concern moved to higher levels.

Low tier members should be classified according to their success rate, not the level they accept or the skills they possess. This is because, in reality, a lot of people are skilled, but cannot be relied upon to finish the job excellently. And their success should also be classified according to its quality, too, for these people bear the name of the guild they belong to.

Funding? Just like a modern manpower agency, the Guild can collect a part of the Adventurer's loot and rewards as payment for their services, aside from collecting money from the quest-givers who request to upgrade the priority levels of their quest. The Guild can also have relations to other guilds to sell material loots their adventurers gather.

How about the acceptance process? Have a dedicated HR for that. On Earth, we don't have magic, and yet a capable HR employee can see who among the potential candidates can help their organization well. Likewise, in fantasy worlds, one can just invent things and twist logic to their narrative and voila! A functioning Human Resources department, just for adventurers.

After all, Adventurers are the Guild's 'face' to the populace.

So yeah, the Adventurer's Guild gathers the quests and gives the reward, and the Adventurers do the quests for the Guild. One cannot exist without the other. A fully-functional and logical Adventurer's Guild.

Edit: Just to be business-like, here are the benefits of a logical Adventurer's Guild to all the stake holders...

State
1) They can have an armed force ready to deal with threats to their existence, without or with little use of their own military.
2) An additional 'labor' for gathering materials for their economy.
3) Presence of veteran warriors can help with the training of their own military forces.

The Guild
1) They earn money through the adventurers' loot, and rewards. Also with their clients.
2) Special status and opportunity for influence within a region or country.

The Adventurers
1) Employment. 'Nuff said.
2) Instead of looking far and wide for clients, they could just head to the Guild to get quests.
3) Thrill of adventure and call of money.


Edit Pt. 2: Cons of having an Adventurer's Guild to all stake holders...

State
1) Presence of an armed group outside the direct control of the state or the leader could lead to disastrous events like coup-de-etat, or rebellions.
2) Can compete for warriors that can lead to deterioration of their army's competency.
3) A lucrative Adventurer's Guild can attract capable bodies to their organization, seriously depleting other sectors of the economy.

The Guild
1) An extraterritorial armed force can't avoid being dragged into political situations of a territory they're in. If you're looking for evidence, go ask a UN peacekeeper.
2) The state, or other factions, can meddle in the internal affairs of the organization, such as appointment of leaders and similar matters.

The Adventurer
1) Adventurer quest is not a 'forever' work. If they get old and invalidated, and all that they know is to kill and destroy, the retired adventurers will have difficulty in integrating back into their society.

 

[Bartun]

I'm sure we all know what an adventurers guild is. the place where you register and doing a quest designated by the guild. be it a subjugation request or collecting materials.

but what I wanted to discuss here, is how to make an adventurers guild that systematically make sense.

you do know that lots of WN depict adventurers guild with rank system from F to S rank, and they could register as long as they paid with a few days living expenses.
and then your adventurers guild card are issued at the very same day with no problem. then you can start taking jobs as long as it accordance to your ranks.

but the way i see it, those system are not making sense at all.

you can register as adventurer in less than a day just like that? without a strict filtering like that, lots of shady person would register to the guild for surreptitious reasoning.
and giving rank to an adventurer doesn't make sense as well, the higher the reward of the quest, then that means the more urgent it is. there's no reason to restrict your employee to doing a job that would benefit you, as long as they could do the job. that's it. and it's not like being in a higher rank would increasing any monthly salary anyway. because they're practically a freelancer to begin with.

so how do you think is a logical system of an adventurers guild? starting from the top of the organization who fund the whole thing, how they decide the management, how to determine the quest, where's the rewards coming from, logistic stuff, etc.

Interesting. I was thinking the same as of late, I guess the "ranks" in an Adventurer's Guild are based on fantasy worlds where magic and monsters are present that normal weapons are unable to take down, like a dragon. The rank system is done just to set the amount of the reward since private citizens are the ones who pay for the Guild services, it works both ways, it serves to set the amount of money the client is required to pay, and the approximate difficulty of the mission.

And yeah, there is nothing that restricts what kind of person can join, very shady people could possibly join without any issue, as often happened in real life. The issue would be unscrupulous people taking advantage of other adventurers or of the clients, damaging the Guild's reputation.

In real life, there was less of "adventure" and more of "kill everyone" kind of missions. War was, and still is a very nasty business, and it requires a special kind of people that would like to wage war for a living. Mercenaries tended to group into large private military companies, and although they were paid and quite well sometimes, they were also offered "loot" as compensation, so it was not unheard of sackings of cities by these armies, and all sort of other crimes that usually comes when you group this kind of people.

Mercenaries flourished during the renaissance when merchants acquired an amount of power and influence that surpassed that of the nobility, Merchant Guilds could afford to pay the best Mercenaries that more often than not easily handled their asses to the peasant armies of nobles and even Kings. In the sea, Privateers, and Corsairs waged war against other navies in the name of their respective nations, and sometimes of trading companies, they took the loot as pay and sometimes received important commissions.

The rise of professional armies led to the decline of the soldier-for-hire, although they never completely disappeared. Even today, modern "Private Military Contractors" operate around the globe, although their operations are strictly regulated by the laws of war.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Addendum:

Logical additions to an Adventurer's Guild to lure in applicants...

1) Use of Guild Facilities, anywhere in the world, like bedrooms, and trusts.
2) Preferred status on Guild-affiliated establishments (banks, restaurants, etc).
3) Discounts on Guild-affiliated establishments.
4) (Optional, depending on the author) Extraterritorial status among the countries that use the Adventurer's Guild's services.

You can add more...

 

[Irl_Rat]

The adventurer's guild makes the most sense in a world where the world is well... most unexplored. Therefore, you send people out to look for stuff, make maps, point out dangers. If there are ruins of an ancient civilizations, that are dangerous, they'd probably be explored mercenary-esque groups.

However, the most important thing to consider is the strength of the government. Is it centralized or virtually powerless. The less powerful the government, the more powerful mercenary groups and adventurer like companies become. Because if the government can't send troops to violate the dragon then people have to rely on totally not Geralt of Rivia.

Another thing to note is the presence of a leveling system. If people can become demi-god esque fighters, this dramatically changes war and governments. If a central government can consolidate leveling areas, it might be able to deploy state sanctioned fighters to take care of threats. Or it might be a world of various warlords vying for power, each territory determined by either level grinding areas or foreign fighters seizing power through means of violence.

The rise of professional armies led to the decline of the soldier-for-hire, although they never completely disappeared. Even today, modern "Private Military Contractors" operate around the globe, although their operations are strictly regulated by the laws of war.

A lot of professional armies were built upon mercenary foundations. Because mercs were generally very competent they were often the core or instructors in many early professional armies. One shitty example is the persian army incorporating greek mercenaries as regulars and instructors to bolster their infantry following the persian invasion of Greece. In fact, a few persian generals that faced Alexander were actually Greeks employed by the Achaemenids. And keep in mind, mercenary is used rather loosely in history. Sometimes they might be troops from an allied state that are fighting under the conditions of high pay. Rome and Rome 2.0 was quite fond of this, or any large empire for the matter.

 

[greyblob]

the thing is, how would you regulate an adventurers guild? is it a corporation, a business? at the end of the day, as a ruler, you're letting independent organized militia take root in your cities. and that's only if it's local. imagine if it's international, where you can gain access to a different country by simply being a member of the guild. it's a very finicky subject, which is why it's either ignored or specifically tailored by the author.

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Well, you can have a system based on reputation.

It doesn't matter how strong an adventurer is, they start at F/whatever lowest rank it is. Then if they do something remarkable like saving a village, it increases. If an S rank adventurer accidentally blows up a city, then the guild can demote them since they can't be trusted with important tasks.

There should be a government organization solely focused on trying to keep the guild and its members in check. Assuming the government has any power at all.


Now that I think about it, it's kind of similar to the Offices in LoR.


(Though the guild can really depend on your setting. In one of my drafted stories a god literally just said "you shall make a guild exactly as I say for people to have access to a key component of the system" )

 

[Alfir]

In WN/LN, the meaning of Adventurers Guild is kind of obscured. An Adventurers Guild is an independent organization that ranks and commissions Adventurers who fight monsters, delve dungeons, and do quests. This is the norm. I don't know who started this... I believe this started from the RPG genre.
But dictionary-wise, I believe that it should be this, It should be composed of Adventurers specializing in adventure, exploration, and sleuthing. To make it more realistic, removing the gamified elements would help. Honestly, I can imagine an 'adventurer's guild' during our medieval times, maybe they were no proof until now that they exist... But they might.

Exploring the identity of an adventurer is also a good start. What are these adventurers? For me, they are the very concept of freedom. They hold no ties to any fief, family, or organization. The Adventurers Guild as an independent organization enforces this identity of independence and along these lines, are able to grow as a powerhouse that can influence the continent by its presence alone.

This is one of the flaws of Adventurers Guild in many novels. Sometimes they look solitary but hold great power over the world, which I rarely felt during the entire span of the story. Sometimes, they are weak organizations that promote self-interest, which as a result, breeds a mercenary mindset among its members.

In my opinion, to make a logical Adventurer Guild, it is important to turn it into a logical organization first, like say, a corporate one. What the stereotype Adventurers Guild commonly lacks are 'Mission' and 'Vision'.
Have something like:
Mission: We are adventurers, freer than man. We serve neither lord nor peasant, but we accept coins at hand.
Vision: To venture into the outlands, map the continent, then discover novel sights, treasures, and exotic life.

To further strengthen logic, I believe there should be laws, rules, and regulations that will maintain the discipline of its adventurers.

 

[Cipiteca396]

This thread might be useful.

Guild Structures in Fantasy

I couldn't find other threads on this so i decided to make my own, if there is another thread about this call me a fool below. So everyone knows the stereotypical guild. You have the guild master, the receptionist, and members or registered adventurers. A lot of the time the adventures also...

forum.scribblehub.com

Short answer is it's a game thing, so it shouldn't appear outside of LitRPG. If it DOES appear, it needs to be heavily modified to fit into the setting.

 

[CadmarLegend]

i think the big difference is : i don't think anyone would pay a mercenaries group to slay a dragon who's minding their own business in a desolate mountain.

but adventurers guild certainly would. for whatever reason.

The adventurers guild isn't always the layer though?

People put up requests and give appropriate prizes. Otherwise, the adventurers won't accept the requests.The

I believe that TsukiMichi's adventurers' guild was one of the most thought -out ones in the JP novel industry.

 

[Topgun1908]

i think the big difference is : i don't think anyone would pay a mercenaries group to slay a dragon who's minding their own business in a desolate mountain.

but adventurers guild certainly would. for whatever reason.

I've always considered the adventurers guild as a reliable middle man. For example they hire someone to kill a dragon and give them 250 gold for the materials. The guild will then sell those materials for something like 400 gold and make a profit. The adventurers might be unable to find a trustworthy merchant so the guild acts as the reliable middleman where you get less money selling to them but it is also less risky because you don't have to find a merchant willing to buy.

 

[SakeVision]

Honestly, I can't see the difference between a (old/modern) mercenary group and an adventurers' guild.

1) Same funding source (loot, or pay from the one who bought their services).
2) Same source of goals (from individuals or groups who can pay).
3) Same quality of members (with cutthroats and/or nice members).
4) Same love for money and/or adventure.

Hmm...I think the only difference is the level system like that JP-style F to S or SSS levels. Modern mercenary groups like Academi and Wagner group don't have something like that.

mercenaries, both old and modern, are usually organized in private armies. Not only aren't they taking just anyone, they usually provide training before sending people into action, work as a team, and are paid a wage rather than per commission.

This is different from adventure guild concept, which is taken from video games. If a setting is video game-like, and the receptionist can tap the invisible hud button, check the player status(level, reputation, and such) and admit them after that, the adventure guild makes sense.

But if it's a realistic setting, and they do what the op said, then the reader has to suspend disbelief. Because it's bs.

 

[Deleted member 54065]

Because it's bs.

Ah, never been truer than this.

 

[Temple]

The adventurer's guild in WNs/LNs just comes with the readers expectations. Kind of like rarity of equipment in games. I think Diablo started it first, but then the system of WoW based on Diablo became the sort of template. Like why is Legendary rarer than Epic, or why is Artifact above Legendary, doesn't Epic, Legendary, Artifact kinda mean the same thing? As I've said, that's just the practice, it's easier to follow the established system than make your own. Sure, games can have their own rarity systems, but there's a lot of advantage piggybacking the familiarity of what's popular.

Take isekai, we know the drill, die in some way and boom story starts. That's just how the majority does it, and readers of the genre know what's up and don't question it. If someone with zero exposure to isekai reads the start of isekai stories, they'd get whiplash from real world - dead - magic world all in one chapter. Going back to guilds, they'd have those SSS quests just waiting for the OP MC to finish it to show how powerful he is. Realistically, if some SSS problem is there, for sure all the kingdoms or something would've sent their armies to it by now rather than wait for the OP MC to get OP enough to deal with it.

Tl:dr, it comes with the genre, genre readers don't question it. I'd be interested in seeing a logical guild system though, it can double as a deconstruction of the trope.

 

[Bartun]

I was thinking about an "Adventurer's Guild" for my novel. They are actually mercenaries that just use the tag "Adventurer" for PR purposes. Several Clans control vast lands and have their own armies, but in the local culture, honor is given utmost importance. Since the warriors fight in an honorable manner, actions like deception, surprise attacks, or ambushes are frowned upon, so the Lords often contract mercenaries to fight in less than honorable ways and also to claim plausible deniability. They also take on bounties and are allowed passage through Clan lands to look for fugitives since it would be disrespectful for one Clan to send their warriors on another Clan's territory. Merchants also seek their services to escort merchant caravans through lawless lands. They take an antagonistic role since my protagonist has a bounty on her head. I'm still working on that part but I felt like sharing my alternate take.

 

[ConansWitchBaby]

Temp agencies in worlds that delve into the supernatural make their residents stronger.

As much as the lower gathering "quests" do to give minimum wage it still gives some feedback from the world that makes them stronger. Rinse and repeat a few hundred times and a normal person could become a demigod. This could explain why ranks would be needed. People either die, quit or become more reliable. And, it would be a stop-gap for anyone trying to get overconfident in their own mettle. The usual employees start from nothing and get registered. Their entire lives up until they might think of insurrection is recorded.

Structure in my opinion would be mostly localized. After all, a guild is an organization that gives out consistent quality product/services while gatekeeping others from establishing a similar service. The politics of anything grander would be hell. The detailed reports of it's members could be a reason why countries or local regions tolerate them as a necessity. Information of everyone that can be a threat can be shared between officials.